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electrical:12v:b2b [2022/10/29 15:45] frater_secessus [Kisae] support email |
electrical:12v:b2b [2022/11/11 15:09] frater_secessus [Renogy] |
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The DC-DC should be big enough to meet your charging targets given the amount of driving you do and the | The DC-DC should be big enough to meet your charging targets given the amount of driving you do and the |
contributions of [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|other forms of charging]]. | contributions of [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|other forms of charging]]. It should be small enough that the [[electrical:12v:alternator#alternator_current_rating|alternator can provide the power continuously]]. |
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Note that [[opinion:frater_secessus:charging_faster|bigger is not always better]]; different battery chemistries and capacities accept current at different rates. Buying more charging capacity than the battery wants((or should have for its own good, see Li below)) is a waste of money. Buying more charging capacity than your alternator can deliver constantly can overheat/damage the alternator. | Note that [[opinion:frater_secessus:charging_faster|bigger is not always better]]; different battery chemistries and capacities accept current at different rates. Buying more charging capacity than the battery wants((or should have for its own good, see Li below)) is a waste of money. Buying more charging capacity than your alternator can deliver constantly can overheat/damage the alternator. |
* **Flooded lead-acid** accepts a maximum of about [[electrical:12v:battery_capacity|C]]/5, or 20A and requires a minimum of C/10 (10A). In this case, **10-20A of charging capacity would be appropriate**. Less than 10A would be insufficient [[electrical:batterycide|for battery health]] and more than 20A would be wasted expense. | * **Flooded lead-acid** accepts a maximum of about [[electrical:12v:battery_capacity|C]]/5, or 20A and requires a minimum of C/10 (10A). In this case, **10-20A of charging capacity would be appropriate**. Less than 10A would be insufficient [[electrical:batterycide|for battery health]] and more than 20A would be wasted expense. |
* **AGM lead-acid** accepts a max of about C/3, or 33A per 100A of battery capacity, and requires a minimum of C/5 (20A). In this case, **20-33A of charging capacity would be appropriate**. Less than 20A would be insufficient for battery health and more than 33A would be wasted expense.((Exception: high-end AGM often have very high current minumums like C/2)) | * **AGM lead-acid** accepts a max of about C/3, or 33A per 100A of battery capacity, and requires a minimum of C/5 (20A). In this case, **20-33A of charging capacity would be appropriate**. Less than 20A would be insufficient for battery health and more than 33A would be wasted expense.((Exception: high-end AGM often have very high current minumums like C/2)) |
* **Lithium** has very low internal resistance, and may be able to slurp up all the alternator has to give. For longevity C/5-C2.5 charging is in the sweet spot, so **20A - 40A charging would be appropriate**. If you are charging by alternator alone and have limited time to do so, some BMS allow up to 1C charging (100A). The bank will not be expected to last as many cycles under aggressive charging but the option is there for people who need it. | * **Lithium** has very low internal resistance and //may// be able to slurp up all the alternator has to give.((in practice, due to wiring resistance and other factors [[electrical:12v:directcharginglfp|Li tends to charge at about the same C-rate as AGM]])) For longevity C/5-C2.5 charging is in the sweet spot, so **20A - 40A charging would be appropriate**. If you are charging by alternator alone and have limited time to do so, some BMS allow up to 1C charging (100A). The bank will not be expected to last as many cycles or stay balanced under aggressive charging but the option is there for people who need it. |
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==== Renogy ==== | ==== Renogy ==== |
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| === DCC series === |
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[[https://amzn.to/2QYuswm|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41B+GcTmbyS._AC_UY218_.jpg?125}}]] | [[https://amzn.to/2QYuswm|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41B+GcTmbyS._AC_UY218_.jpg?125}}]] |
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Note: a [[https://amzn.to/3fSFDD2|30A combo model]] is also available | Note: a [[https://amzn.to/3fSFDD2|30A combo model]] is also available |
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=== solar+alternator behavior === | == solar+alternator behavior == |
This device's behavior regarding solar+alternator charging is widely misunderstood. | This device's behavior regarding solar+alternator charging is widely misunderstood. |
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{{http://img.mousetrap.net/misc/renogy2525.jpg}} | {{http://img.mousetrap.net/misc/renogy2525.jpg}} |
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=== charging examples === | == charging examples == |
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Using the above information and a theoretical scenario where we have 15A((~250w of panel under excellent conditions)) of solar charging available during the daytime, an alternator capable of delivering 50A, and a bank able to accept 50A of charging: | Using the above information and a theoretical scenario where we have 15A((~250w of panel under excellent conditions)) of solar charging available during the daytime, an alternator capable of delivering 50A, and a bank able to accept 50A of charging: |
Note: some have reported better alternator charging performance with the D+ (smart alternator) wire connected, even with plain alternators. Oversizing cables from the alternator may also help. ((https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtIe2rIfpW8)) | Note: some have reported better alternator charging performance with the D+ (smart alternator) wire connected, even with plain alternators. Oversizing cables from the alternator may also help. ((https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtIe2rIfpW8)) |
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=== starter battery maintenance behavior === | == starter battery maintenance behavior == |
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> If the service battery is in float charge stage, the starting battery will be charged at the same time. The charging voltage is limited at 13.8V. The charging amperage is limited at 25A.((https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC3050D1S-G1/RBC3050D1S-Manual.pdf)) | > If the service battery is in float charge stage, the starting battery will be charged at the same time. The charging voltage is limited at 13.8V. The charging amperage is limited at 25A.((https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC3050D1S-G1/RBC3050D1S-Manual.pdf)) |
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==== Kisae ==== | ==== Kisae ==== |
[[https://amzn.to/3fWJtbH|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81Hke9PigbL._AC_UL320_.jpg?125}}]] | [[https://amzn.to/3fWJtbH|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81Hke9PigbL._AC_UL320_.jpg?125}}]] |
* [[https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf|manual]] | * [[https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf|manual]] |
* An [[https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f20/installing-a-kisae-dmt-1250-dc-to-dc-charger-24264.html|extensive write-up]] | * An [[https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f20/installing-a-kisae-dmt-1250-dc-to-dc-charger-24264.html|extensive write-up]] |
* [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/has-anyone-used-the-kisae-dmt1250-abso-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger-with-mppt.4402/post-234532|additional information]] from a support email | * [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/has-anyone-used-the-kisae-dmt1250-abso-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger-with-mppt.4402/post-234532|additional solar input information]] from a support email |
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[[https://amzn.to/33HJ8ns|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Hu4-7NxOL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg}}]] | [[https://amzn.to/33HJ8ns|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Hu4-7NxOL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg}}]] |
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* DC1212 series DC-DC isolators in 20-40((and possibly 60A according to manual nomenclature)) output. Switched on by ignition circuit on the D+ port.((https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf)) DIP switches for battery type, Vabs and Vfloat. [[https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf|manual]] (pdf) [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/renogy-dcc1212-dc-dc-charger-teardown.10141/|teardown]] Note: some versions of the manual [[https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/okfkuk/my_batteries_inverter_and_dcdc_charger_came_in_i/h5899bw/|may have a typo]]. | === DC1212 series === |
* DCC-series of voltage sensing b2b chargers in [[https://amzn.to/2NGIP6U|20A]], [[https://amzn.to/33HJ8ns|40A versions]], and [[https://amzn.to/321TSOa|60A]] versions. | |
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| DC-DC chargers in 20A, 40A, and 60A output. Switched on by ignition circuit on the D+ port.((https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf)) DIP switches for battery type, Vabs and Vfloat. [[https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf|manual]] (pdf) [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/renogy-dcc1212-dc-dc-charger-teardown.10141/|teardown]] Note: some versions of the manual [[https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/okfkuk/my_batteries_inverter_and_dcdc_charger_came_in_i/h5899bw/|may have a typo]]. |
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These chargers appear to have a 3 hour absorption duration. This is usually insufficient for lead chemistries, but still longer than the 2 hour duration of the DCC series above. From the manual: | These chargers appear to have a 3 hour absorption duration. This is usually insufficient for lead chemistries, but still longer than the 2 hour duration of the DCC series above. From the manual: |
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>> By default, absorption will not exceed 3 hours to prevent overcharging. | >> By default, absorption will not exceed 3 hours to prevent overcharging. |
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| === Rego series === |
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| [[https://amzn.to/3E0QZQm|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51pk04meVuL._AC_UY218_.jpg}}]] |
| [[https://amzn.to/3E0QZQm|60A DC-DC]] with different form factor and a configurable USER profile. Important differneces from teh 1212 line above: |
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| * configurable output current - 60A/50A/40A/30A/20A/10A |
| * voltage-sense triggering rather than D+ |
| * 10-300min boost duration in USER mode |
| * 120min boost duration still hard-coded in predefined lead-chemistry modes, BUT will drop to Float if output is less than 3A (ie Absorption termination based on endAmps) |
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| [[https://store-fhnch.mybigcommerce.com/content/RCB1260DO-100506PR/RBC1260DO-12B_UserManual_A0.pdf|manual]] (pdf) |
==== Redarc ==== | ==== Redarc ==== |
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