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hvac:heating [2020/01/19 17:09]
frater_secessus [propane heating] |
hvac:heating [2022/01/11 13:43]
princess_fluffypants [Vented Heaters] |
| Many RVers [[camping:snowbirding|snowbird]] to get away from temperature extremes, but others enjoy the cold or sometimes get caught in it. The method one uses for staying warm will depend on whether or not one has "[[camping:hookup|hookups]]" (grid connection). | Many RVers [[camping:snowbirding|snowbird]] to get away from temperature extremes, but others enjoy the cold or sometimes get caught in it. The method one uses for staying warm will depend on whether or not one has "[[camping:hookup|hookups]]" (grid connection). |
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| Heads up: **heating an RV from batteries/solar is impractical**.((with the exception of [[hvac:heating#contact_heating|contact heating]])) | TL;DR: **heating an RV from batteries/solar is impractical**.((with the exception of [[hvac:heating#contact_heating|contact heating]])) We generally use propane. |
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| > "Fear of propane will be expensive." -- Sternwake((https://vandwellerforum.com/thread-3260-post-55086.html#pid55086)) | > "Fear of propane will be expensive." -- Sternwake((https://vandwellerforum.com/thread-3260-post-55086.html#pid55086)) |
| ===== space heating ===== | ===== Space Heating ===== |
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| Fuel-consuming heaters create air-quality issues, including decreased oxygen and increased carbon monoxide. **This is why we ventilate.** | Fuel-consuming heaters create air-quality issues, including decreased oxygen and increased carbon monoxide. **This is why we ventilate.** |
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| When [[electrical:shore_power|shore power]] is available electric space heating may be preferable for air quality reasons. | When [[electrical:shore_power|shore power]] is available electric space heating may be preferable for air quality reasons. |
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| | ==== Vented Heaters ==== |
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| | These are heaters which burn a fuel to produce heat (either gasoline, diesel, or propane), however the exhaust products are vented outside of the van. This gives the benefit of being able to generate a //lot// of heat for days and days at a time even in extremely cold climates, without needing to worry (much) about fumes or excess humidity. The downsides are cost, installation complexity (it requires drilling some fairly large holes in the bottom of the van), and operational complexity (potentially needing to manage yet another fuel source). However due to the incredible amounts of long-term safe heat they are able to put out, **this is the method of heating recommended for anyone spending extensive time in cold climates.** Ski bums, take note. |
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| | They do require some electrical power to run the fan and thermostat/ignition system, so they are best suited to dwellers who have a dedicated house battery setup. |
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| | FarOutRide has an [[https://faroutride.com/air-heater-installation/|excellent write-up]] on these heaters. |
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| | === Diesel ventilated heaters === |
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| | {{https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716NFKtNpoL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?100 }} Diesel fuel is //incredibly// energy dense and burns //very// hot, making it the ideal candidate for powering a ventilated heater. Even the smaller diesel heaters are capable of putting out over 2kw of heat and the larger ones are rated for nearly 6kw, //four times// as much as an electric space heater. |
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| | [[https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/heating-solutions/recreational-vehicles/air-heaters/|Westabo]] is the major brand name in the market, however recently Chinese knock-off diesel heaters have come on the scene and results have generally been positive. |
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| | * [[https://amzn.to/2YKbVWE|happybuy]] recommended by maddoggrimmyjimmy((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/fal28ap/)) |
| | * [[https://amzn.to/2t7wCjx|superfastracing]] recommended by likesweirdthings((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/famw6ja/)) |
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| | === Gasoline Ventilated Heaters === |
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| | Gasoline burns less hot than diesel, so the fuel consumption for a given amount of heat is going to be higher. Gasoline can also be more susceptible to [[https://faroutride.com/air-heater-installation/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-7|coking/soot issues]] especially when run at the "Low" heat setting. However if you have a gasoline van already, being able to run the heater directly off of the vehicle's existing gas tank is a huge convenience factor. Some vans (Such as the [[rv:ford_transit|Ford Transit]] can be ordered with an auxiliary fuel tank connection specifically for situations like this. Just plan on having to [[https://faroutride.com/webasto-install-new-burner/|clean/replace the burner]] every year or so. |
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| | === Propane Ventilated Heaters === |
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| | Propane burns the least hot of the three fuels, but it also burns easiest and cleanest. Propane ventilated heaters do not suffer from the soot problems that gasoline and diesel heaters can, and they're usually far less fussy about altitude adjustments. If you're into low/no maintenance and want to use a set-it-and-forget-it thermostat, this is the one for you. |
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| ==== propane heating ==== | ==== propane heating ==== |
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| === catalytic === | === catalytic === |
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| | Catalytic heaters are called that because they catalyse (degrade with chemistry and temperature) fuel rather than burn it with flame. Benefits include somewhat higher efficiency (using less fuel, creating less water vapor) and a softer, less direct heat less likely to catch things on fire. |
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| [[https://amzn.to/3am0vxM|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71rDsgejreL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?75}}]]Now discontinued, Coleman made smallish propane catalytic heaters:((ebay links to used ones included below)) | [[https://amzn.to/3am0vxM|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71rDsgejreL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?75}}]]Now discontinued, Coleman made smallish propane catalytic heaters:((ebay links to used ones included below)) |
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| * the upright [[http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575146719&toolid=10001&campid=5338647285&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3FLH_CAds%3D%26_ex_kw%3D%26_fpos%3D%26_fspt%3D1%26_mPrRngCbx%3D1%26_nkw%3Dcoleman%2Bsportcat%26_sacat%3D%26_sadis%3D%26_sop%3D12%26_udhi%3D%26_udlo%3D%26_fosrp%3D1|SportCat]] (1,500 btu)((440w equivalent)) | * the upright [[https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_CAds=&_ex_kw=&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_nkw=coleman+sportcat&_sacat=&_sadis=&_sop=12&_udhi=&_udlo=&_fosrp=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&mkcid=1&campid=5338647285&toolid=10001&customid=&mkevt=1|SportCat]] (1,500 btu)((440w equivalent)) |
| * the tilted [[http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575146719&toolid=10001&campid=5338647285&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3FLH_CAds%3D%26_ex_kw%3D%26_fpos%3D%26_fspt%3D1%26_mPrRngCbx%3D1%26_nkw%3Dcoleman%2Bblackcat%26_sacat%3D%26_sadis%3D%26_sop%3D12%26_udhi%3D%26_udlo%3D%26_fosrp%3D1|BlackCat]] (3,000 btu), etc. Note: a [[https://amzn.to/3am0vxM|clone of the sportcat]] has appeared. | * the tilted [[https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_CAds=&_ex_kw=&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_nkw=coleman+blackcat&_sacat=&_sadis=&_sop=12&_udhi=&_udlo=&_fosrp=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&mkcid=1&campid=5338647285&toolid=10001&customid=&mkevt=1|BlackCat]] (3,000 btu), etc. Note: a [[https://amzn.to/3am0vxM|clone of the sportcat]] has appeared. |
| * fan-forced [[http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575146719&toolid=10001&campid=5338647285&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_odkw%3Dcoleman%2Bsportcat%26_sop%3D12%26_fspt%3D1%26_mPrRngCbx%3D1%26_osacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3Dcoleman%2Bprocat%26_sacat%3D0|ProCat]] (3,000 btu) | * fan-forced [[https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=coleman+sportcat&_sop=12&_fspt=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=coleman+procat&_sacat=0&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&mkcid=1&campid=5338647285&toolid=10001&customid=&mkevt=1|ProCat]] (3,000 btu) |
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| ==== diesel heating ==== | |
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| {{https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716NFKtNpoL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?100 }}Recently chinese diesel heaters (a la Webasto) have come on the market. They use a bit of electricity for the thermostat and fan. Gas van will need a small diesel tank to run it. | |
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| * [[https://amzn.to/2YKbVWE|happybuy]] recommended by maddoggrimmyjimmy((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/fal28ap/)) | |
| * [[https://amzn.to/2t7wCjx|superfastracing]] recommended by likesweirdthings((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/famw6ja/)) | |
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| ==== white gas heating ==== | |
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| White gas, sold as Coleman camp fuel, was a common heating/cooking/lantern fuel until the relatively recent ascendance of propane.((which old fettlers refer to as "profane")) Propane is probably safer for generations who did not grow up camping with stoves, pocketknives, et.c Part of it is safety, and part is that the gear just isn't made anymore. | |
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| Coleman fuel gear has relatively little smell while running at temperature, but **start-up and shut-down can create fumes and intense odors**. Those activities should be done outdoors. | |
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| === catalytic === | |
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| {{ https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/RbMAAOSw-0BeFJaj/s-l225.jpg}}Catalytic heaters were common in the 60s-70s and can be found at garage sales, thrift shops, or ebay. [[https://www.campingforums.com/forum/showthread.php?6373-Easy-to-fix-old-Coleman-catalytic-heaters&p=31193&viewfull=1#post31193|Repair instructions]]. | |
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| * dome-shaped heaters like the 513-700 (3,000-5,000 btu) pictured here, 512A708 (3500 btu, [[https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/IhgAAOSwBm9eHMq~/s-l225.jpg|pic]], [[http://www.oldtowncoleman.com/manuals/512A.pdf|manual]]) | |
| * block-shaped heater 513A (3,000-5,000 btu) ([[https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/uXgAAOSwXq5eJEos/s-l225.jpg|pic]]) | |
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| === flame === | |
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| [[http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575146719&toolid=10001&campid=5338647285&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3FLH_CAds%3D%26_ex_kw%3D%26_fpos%3D%26_fspt%3D1%26_mPrRngCbx%3D1%26_nkw%3Dcoleman%2Bheat%2Bdrum%26_sacat%3D%26_sadis%3D%26_sop%3D12%26_udhi%3D%26_udlo%3D%26_fosrp%3D1|Heat drums]] were made for some Coleman stoves. | |
| ==== candle ==== | ==== candle ==== |
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| [[https://amzn.to/37agHAg|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91IkqAoxkzL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?75}}]]Candles are an oft-discussed source of heat. I typical candle will put out something like 240btu((70w equivalent)) of heat. They also give off light and can be used [[https://amzn.to/37agHAg|as a lantern]]. | [[https://amzn.to/37agHAg|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91IkqAoxkzL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?75}}]]Candles are an oft-discussed source of heat. A candle will put out something like 240btu((70w equivalent)) of heat. They also give off light and can be used [[https://amzn.to/37agHAg|as a lantern]]. |
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| Downsides include soot, tippiness, and lead content in some wicks. Using candles in a "lantern" fixture may be safer. | Downsides include soot, tippiness, and lead content in some wicks. Using candles in a "lantern" fixture may be safer. |
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| The most common candle lantern is the [[https://amzn.to/2TDFqcd|UCO lantern]], which uses [[https://amzn.to/2v4QTHC|a proprietary candle]] which UCO says produces 450 btu. They make tealight versions in [[https://amzn.to/38eyNkK|non-collapsible mini]] and [[http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575146719&toolid=10001&campid=5338647285&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3Duco%2Bmicro%2Blantern%26_sacat%3D0|collapsible micro]] sizes. | The most common candle lantern is the [[https://amzn.to/2TDFqcd|UCO lantern]], which uses [[https://amzn.to/2v4QTHC|a proprietary candle]] which UCO says produces 450 btu. They make tealight versions in [[https://amzn.to/38eyNkK|non-collapsible mini]] and [[https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=uco+micro+lantern&_sacat=0&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&mkcid=1&campid=5338647285&toolid=10001&customid=&mkevt=1|collapsible micro]] sizes. |
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| You can also DIY heated gear with [[http://carbonheater.us/|carbon heat strips]]. | You can also DIY heated gear with [[http://carbonheater.us/|carbon heat strips]]. |
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| | Note: a quirk of electric heating is that the heaters typically don't run at varying power levels for varying heat levels; they vary the ON/OFF duty cycle. So maybe 100% duty cycle at 100w on HI (average 100w) and 10% duty cycle at 100w on LO -- on for one second and off for 9 seconds (average 10w). For this reason you may not be able to run a 300w electric blanket on LO (30w average) from a 200w [[electrical:inverter|inverter]]. |
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| ===== comparison ===== | ===== comparison ===== |
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