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opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes [2021/12/29 05:35]
princess_fluffypants [Fantasy] 		opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes [2022/06/06 11:52]
frater_secessus [Failure to ask good questions]
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 ====== Common beginner mistakes ====== ====== Common beginner mistakes ======
 There are many blessings and victories in van life;  this article is not about that.  It's about the various ways to fail, to skin our knees, to waste money, time, and resources. There are many blessings and victories in van life;  this article is not about that.  It's about the various ways to fail, to skin our knees, to waste money, time, and resources.
- 
  
  
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   * people who can figure things out for themselves    * people who can figure things out for themselves 
   * people who know basic cooking   * people who know basic cooking
 +  * people who have good DIY skills and fix-it/mechanical abilities
  
  
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   * the "high maintenance"   * the "high maintenance"
   * social media addicts   * social media addicts
 +  * People who have little interest in understanding how complex systems work
   * people who make little effort and want to be spoon-fed   * people who make little effort and want to be spoon-fed
   * stoners, daydreamers, idiots, children   * stoners, daydreamers, idiots, children
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   * picky eaters   * picky eaters
  
 +Further reading:  [[https://cheaprvliving.com/do-you-have-what-it-takes-to-live-in-a-vehicle/|Do You Have What It Takes to Live in a Vehicle?]], particular the section about it being 90% //self// and 10% //stuff//.
 ===== Planning ===== ===== Planning =====
  
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 Here is [[lifestyle:hitting_the_road|a suggested timeline/checklist]] to assist your planning. Here is [[lifestyle:hitting_the_road|a suggested timeline/checklist]] to assist your planning.
-===== relationships =====+===== Relationships =====
  
 It is common in the general population for one partner to want to travel and the other not to.  Arguments, breakups, and divorces can all result from that difference in outlook. Be prepared.  It is common in the general population for one partner to want to travel and the other not to.  Arguments, breakups, and divorces can all result from that difference in outlook. Be prepared. 
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 +----
  
- +===== Van =====
-===== van =====+
  
 Failure to **select a good van** is the most expensive mistake beginners make.  Note that //good// means  Failure to **select a good van** is the most expensive mistake beginners make.  Note that //good// means 
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   * what is depicted on social media   * what is depicted on social media
   * what others tell you to buy   * what others tell you to buy
 +  * the cheapest van you can find
   * etc    * etc 
  
-The seller must have a title in hand, and it must be in their name.  The van must receive a pre-sale inspection from an independent mechanic.  Breaking these rule typically results in heartbreak.  +The seller must have a title in hand, and it must be in their name.  The van must receive a pre-sale inspection from an independent mechanic.  Breaking these rule typically results in heartbreak.
-==== failure to find vans ====+
  
-Selecting the best van for you out of two examples is unlikely to yield a winner.  Selecting the best van out of 200 is more likely to end in happiness.  Of course if you [[rv:build:minimal|already have a van]] or inherit one then there is little downside to rocking it. +It is //highly advisable// to **not** buy a fixer-upper or "Needs a little TLC" van as your first van, unless you have extensive mechanical abilities/tools/aptitude/knowledge. Spend more to get a reliable van, and skimp on the interior build. You're going to have a lot better time inside a spartan build out on a reliable chassis that will go anywhere, than a fancy instagram-worthy build while broken down on the side of the road. 
 +  
 +==== Failure to find vans ==== 
 + 
 +Selecting the best van for you out of two examples is unlikely to yield a winner.  Selecting the best van out of 200 is more likely to end in happiness.  Of course if you [[rv:build:minimal|already have a van]] or inherit one then there is little downside to rocking it. 
 + 
 +Admittadly, as of 2021/2022 used prices for vans have skyrocketed due to a number of issues. Lower your expectations if you're trying to keep a reasonable budget. 
  
 See [[rv:finding|Finding a Van]]. See [[rv:finding|Finding a Van]].
  
  
-==== failure to assess interior space ====+==== Failure to assess interior space ====
  
 It is common for people to **buy a van then decide there is some deal-breaker about [[rv:cargo_van:comparo#living_area_comparison|the living space]]**. This will be your home and it needs to suit you.  RVers have a saying about this:  "try to buy your third RV first".  It is common for people to **buy a van then decide there is some deal-breaker about [[rv:cargo_van:comparo#living_area_comparison|the living space]]**. This will be your home and it needs to suit you.  RVers have a saying about this:  "try to buy your third RV first". 
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-==== failure to assess external dimensions ====+==== Failure to assess external dimensions ====
  
 Does it have enough ground clearance for your plans? Does it have enough ground clearance for your plans?
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-==== failure to inspect the van ====+==== Failure to inspect the van ====
  
 The answer to the "what do I look for with a used van?" FAQ is "a mechanic".  A mechanic will do a **pre-sale inspection** for relatively cheap.  It can be $50-$150, or even free if they want to build a working relationship with you.   The answer to the "what do I look for with a used van?" FAQ is "a mechanic".  A mechanic will do a **pre-sale inspection** for relatively cheap.  It can be $50-$150, or even free if they want to build a working relationship with you.  
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 Money well spent, either way. Money well spent, either way.
  
-==== failures to inspect the roof of tall vans ====+==== Failures to inspect the roof of tall vans ====
  
 The roof is where rain will enter if there are leaks.  If you cannot see the roof from the ground bring a ladder ((and padding so you don't mar the paint)). If you don't have a ladder a selfie stick held overhead to video the roof is better than nothing.  The roof is where rain will enter if there are leaks.  If you cannot see the roof from the ground bring a ladder ((and padding so you don't mar the paint)). If you don't have a ladder a selfie stick held overhead to video the roof is better than nothing. 
  
-The very tall vans are so tall that they won't fit through a drive-through and under many common obstructions. Inspect the entire roofline for evidence of repairs from impacts with a particularly low-hanging branch or McDonalds drive through awning. +The very tall vans (High roof [[rv:ford_transit|Transits]], [[rv:sprinter|Sprinters]], [[rv:ram_promaster|Promasters]], etc) are so tall that they won't fit through under many common obstructions. Inspect the entire roofline for evidence of repairs from impacts with a particularly low-hanging branch or McDonalds drive through awning. 
-===== power =====+ 
 +---- 
 +===== Electrical Power ===== 
 + 
 +==== Thinking like an apartment-dweller ==== 
 + 
 + 
 +**A van is not an apartment**, so stop thinking that way.  A productive approach is to **start from nothing** then decide what you need to make your vanlife workable. Prefer non-electric approaches to electric ones.  This goes hand-in-hand with the math below. **Wanting all the amenities you had in a house or apartment** will cause disappointment, great expense, or both.     
 + 
 +Power in the camper is misunderstood by most and hand-waved away by optimists.  It's mainly math with some extra reading required, so I get why it's not a fun topic.  
  
 Reality check:   Reality check:  
  
-  - [[https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3|the average US home]] consumes **29,000**W of power per day.+  - [[https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3|the average US home]] consumes **29,000**Wh of power per day.
   - A 100w solar panel on an MPPT [[electrical:solar:charge_controller|controller]] will harvest an average of:   - A 100w solar panel on an MPPT [[electrical:solar:charge_controller|controller]] will harvest an average of:
-    * Chicago - **308**W/day +    * Chicago - **308**Wh/day 
-    * Salt Lake City - **376**W/day +    * Salt Lake City - **376**Wh/day 
-    * Seattle - **292**W/day +    * Seattle - **292**Wh/day 
-    * Phoenix  - **447**W/day +    * Phoenix  - **447**Wh/day 
-  - all of those harvests are conspicuously less than 29,000W.   +  - all of those harvests are conspicuously less than 29,000Wh.  
  
-==== heating and cooling ====+==== Heating and Cooling ====
  
  
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   - have typically invested thousands of dollars in battery banks and solar, or run a [[electrical:generator|generator]]   - have typically invested thousands of dollars in battery banks and solar, or run a [[electrical:generator|generator]]
  
-Electric heating is such a massive power draw that it can be an extremely effective way to [[electrical:wind#dump_loads|dump excess power]].+Electric heating is such a massive power draw that it's often used as a way to [[electrical:wind#dump_loads|dump excess power]] on demand. 
  
  
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-==== thinking like an apartment-dweller ==== 
  
- +==== Failure to consider all loads ====
-**A van is not an apartment**, so stop thinking that way.  A productive approach is to **start from nothing** then decide what you need to make your vanlife workable. Prefer non-electric approaches to electric ones.  This goes hand-in-hand with the math below. **Wanting all the amenities you had in a house or apartment** will cause disappointment, great expense, or both.     +
- +
-Power in the camper is misunderstood by most and hand-waved away by optimists.  It's mainly math with some extra reading required, so I get why it's not a fun topic.   +
- +
-==== failure to consider all loads ====+
  
 Posts that include "my needs are simple, all I need are lights and a fan" develop, after questioning, into "Yeah, forgot the laptop.  And phone.  And tablet.  And toaster.  And coffee maker." Posts that include "my needs are simple, all I need are lights and a fan" develop, after questioning, into "Yeah, forgot the laptop.  And phone.  And tablet.  And toaster.  And coffee maker."
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-==== overbuilding the power system ====+==== Overbuilding the power system ====
  
  
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   * [[http://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?do=search&id=tweaking|tweaking the system]] for max power generation   * [[http://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?do=search&id=tweaking|tweaking the system]] for max power generation
  
-===== solar =====+---- 
 + 
 +===== Solar =====
  
 Solar power is not a cure-all and [[electrical:12v:mandatory_solar|not even mandatory]].  There's [[electrical:solar:gentle_intro|a gentle introduction to solar]] on this wiki if you want to get a hold on what it can and cannot do.  This section is about solar mistakes. Solar power is not a cure-all and [[electrical:12v:mandatory_solar|not even mandatory]].  There's [[electrical:solar:gentle_intro|a gentle introduction to solar]] on this wiki if you want to get a hold on what it can and cannot do.  This section is about solar mistakes.
  
-==== no solar ====+==== No solar ====
  
 Having no solar at all is generally an unforced error for vandwellers.  Even [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|adding small amounts of panel]] (100w) can make a big difference, and can be added to an [[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator-charged system]] for as little as $100.((100w poly panel on sale for $90, 10A [[electrical:solar:shunt_tweaking|shunt controller]] for $10.)) Having no solar at all is generally an unforced error for vandwellers.  Even [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|adding small amounts of panel]] (100w) can make a big difference, and can be added to an [[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator-charged system]] for as little as $100.((100w poly panel on sale for $90, 10A [[electrical:solar:shunt_tweaking|shunt controller]] for $10.))
  
-==== worrying ====+==== believing 100w of panel will make 100w all day long ==== 
 + 
 +The 100w panel will make 100w in a lab in test conditions.  Your van is not in a lab in test conditions.   
 + 
 +  - the panel will rarely make anywhere close to 100w((under normal conditions)) 
 +  - the max power it //does// make will be around local solar noon.  Before and after that power will be less.  
 + 
 +Example:  Albuquerque, NM  on May 15, 2022.((assuming clear skies, no shade, MPPT, total system efficiency 85%)) 
 + 
 +^ Time ^ Watts ^ 
 +|6:02a |0w| 
 +|7:02a |15.9w| 
 +|8:02A |32.8w| 
 +|9:02A |48.7w| 
 +|10:02A |62.3w| 
 +|11:02A |72.8w| 
 +|12:02A |79.39w| 
 +|**1:02p** - local solar noon |81.7w| 
 +|2:02 |79.5w| 
 +|3:02p |72.9w| 
 +|4:02p |62.5w| 
 +|5:02p |48.9w| 
 +|6:02p |33.1w| 
 +|7:02p |16.2w| 
 +|8:02p |0w| 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 +See the //not enough panel// section below.  
 + 
 +==== shade ==== 
 + 
 +Shade will wreck solar harvest.  Beginners often don't pay attention to shade conditions, including shade thrown by objects on the van roof itself.   
 +==== Worrying ====
  
 Yes, [[electrical:solar:status|your solar is probably working]]. Yes, [[electrical:solar:status|your solar is probably working]].
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-=== panels that won't fit ===+=== Panels that won't fit ===
  
 Beginners sometimes buy panels before measuring the available roofspace.  Either the panels don't fit at all, or they don't fit the way intended.  Measure first, //then// buy panels to fit your particular game of "roof tetris". Beginners sometimes buy panels before measuring the available roofspace.  Either the panels don't fit at all, or they don't fit the way intended.  Measure first, //then// buy panels to fit your particular game of "roof tetris".
  
-=== toy panels ===+=== Toy panels ===
  
 In general, **very small panels** (less than 100w) are a terrible return on money.  They often cost more than much larger normal panels.  Unless you are buying them to put on a backpack or something they probably will be more toy than tool. In general, **very small panels** (less than 100w) are a terrible return on money.  They often cost more than much larger normal panels.  Unless you are buying them to put on a backpack or something they probably will be more toy than tool.
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 On the other end of the extreme, larger(200w+), [[electrical:solar:panels#panel_voltage|higher voltage]](20v, 24v, etc) panels are cheapest by the watt.  Medium sized((100w-175w)) 12v panels are in the middle, pricewise. 2019 prices for 100w 12v is around $1/watt.  On the other end of the extreme, larger(200w+), [[electrical:solar:panels#panel_voltage|higher voltage]](20v, 24v, etc) panels are cheapest by the watt.  Medium sized((100w-175w)) 12v panels are in the middle, pricewise. 2019 prices for 100w 12v is around $1/watt. 
  
-=== flex panels ===+=== Flex panels ===
  
  
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 Don't get me started on people **flat-mounting poly/mono flex panels to the roof of their van**.  Maximum cost, maximum power loss due to temp derating, //and// with the bonus of blasting re-radiated heat right through the van roof.  It's a crap trifecta.  Don't get me started on people **flat-mounting poly/mono flex panels to the roof of their van**.  Maximum cost, maximum power loss due to temp derating, //and// with the bonus of blasting re-radiated heat right through the van roof.  It's a crap trifecta. 
  
-=== panel types and controllers ===+=== mixing different panels === 
 + 
 +Mixing differently-rated panels will always be sub-optimal.  People  who know what they are doing can minimize the losses.  Beginners should either buy identical panels or run different types on separate controllers.  
 + 
 +=== Panel types and controllers ===
  
  
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 **Amorphous panels are the worst fit for MPPT** due to their low voltage;  there is little or no excess voltage for MPPT to turn into additional current. Exception: amorphous panels //in series// work fine with MPPT. **Amorphous panels are the worst fit for MPPT** due to their low voltage;  there is little or no excess voltage for MPPT to turn into additional current. Exception: amorphous panels //in series// work fine with MPPT.
  
-=== panel efficiency ===+=== Panel efficiency ===
  
  
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 This means **if you have limited space you will get more power out of of the same space using higher-efficiency panels**.  That's it.  A 100w panel is a 100w panel, no matter how efficient.  Only the real estate needed to generate that 100w is different. Efficiency doesn't mean you'll get more or less power from a 100w panel.  So don't spend the extra $$$ on high-efficiency panels unless you need it to get max power out of limited roofspace. This means **if you have limited space you will get more power out of of the same space using higher-efficiency panels**.  That's it.  A 100w panel is a 100w panel, no matter how efficient.  Only the real estate needed to generate that 100w is different. Efficiency doesn't mean you'll get more or less power from a 100w panel.  So don't spend the extra $$$ on high-efficiency panels unless you need it to get max power out of limited roofspace.
  
-==== not enough panel ====+==== Mismatched panels ==== 
 + 
 +Mismatched panels (different voltage or current [[electrical:solar:panels#specifications|spec]]) on the same controller will hamstring one another.  It's [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_tennis_terms#unforced_error|an unforced error]] which you can avoid this by: 
 + 
 +  * running //identical//((not close, not same maker, not same wattage, not kinda  look the same, IDENTICAL)) panels on the same controller; or 
 +  * run different-spec panels on their own controller 
 + 
 +If you are committed to running mismatched panels on the same controller see [[https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=alt-e+mismatched|this series of videos by Alt-E]] on the subject.   
 + 
 + 
 +==== Not enough panel ====
  
 Let's address two issues:  zero panel, and some panel but not enough. Let's address two issues:  zero panel, and some panel but not enough.
  
-Yes, there are situations where zero solar is part of a workable power plan but they are rare.(([[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator charging]] [[electrical:12v:deep_cycle_battery#lithium_chemistries|lithium banks]] is one scenario that doesn't require solar.  Long-haul drivers with [[electrical:12v:b2b|B2B chargers]] is another.)) Generally speaking, having zero solar power on a van is an unforced error.  It doesn't take much;  [[electrical:solar:builds#w1|200w is the most common amount of solar]] on vans.+Yes, there are [[electrical:12v:mandatory_solar|situations where zero solar is part of a workable power plan]] but they are rare.(([[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator charging]] [[electrical:12v:deep_cycle_battery#lithium_chemistries|lithium banks]] is one scenario that doesn't require solar.  Long-haul drivers with [[electrical:12v:b2b|B2B chargers]] is another.)) Generally speaking, having zero solar power on a van is an unforced error.  It doesn't take much;  [[electrical:solar:builds#w1|200w is the most common amount of solar]] on vans. 
 + 
 + 
 +For [[electrical:solar:output|various reasons]], solar panels will typically make less (or //much// less) power than they are rated at.  It's not a scam;  the panels really will make that power under certain conditions.  Those conditions rarely occur in reality. 
  
 The majority of 'dwellers who use lead-chemistry banks require enough solar power to fully charge the banks every day.  Under good solar conditions, this is usually stated as [[electrical:solar:sizing#solar_panel_array|the 1:1 rule of thumb]];  one watt of panel per [[electrical:12v:battery_capacity|Ah of battery capacity]].  Challenging conditions (higher latitude, chronic fog or rain) will require even more, 2:1 or 3:1 or more. If you drive regularly, making trips into town or something, [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|adding alternator charging to solar]] can reduce panel requirements. The majority of 'dwellers who use lead-chemistry banks require enough solar power to fully charge the banks every day.  Under good solar conditions, this is usually stated as [[electrical:solar:sizing#solar_panel_array|the 1:1 rule of thumb]];  one watt of panel per [[electrical:12v:battery_capacity|Ah of battery capacity]].  Challenging conditions (higher latitude, chronic fog or rain) will require even more, 2:1 or 3:1 or more. If you drive regularly, making trips into town or something, [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|adding alternator charging to solar]] can reduce panel requirements.
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 Failure to charge lead batteries fully and regularly will have negative effects, as we will see below.  One of the most frequent causes of early battery death is charging with [[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator only]]. Failure to charge lead batteries fully and regularly will have negative effects, as we will see below.  One of the most frequent causes of early battery death is charging with [[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator only]].
  
-==== too much panel ====+==== Too much panel ====
  
 j/k.  While it is theoretically possible to have too much panel, in practice few vandwellers ever wished they had less wattage.   j/k.  While it is theoretically possible to have too much panel, in practice few vandwellers ever wished they had less wattage.  
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 Buying "more panel than you need" usually costs extra money directly (panel cost * quantity) and indirectly (may need a bigger controller).  Exception:  you may be able to get 400w of high voltage panels for the same price as 200w of 12v panels due to the former's superior watt/$ ratio. Buying "more panel than you need" usually costs extra money directly (panel cost * quantity) and indirectly (may need a bigger controller).  Exception:  you may be able to get 400w of high voltage panels for the same price as 200w of 12v panels due to the former's superior watt/$ ratio.
  
-==== relying on tilt ====+Having said all that, you can have too much panel((or string)) voltage for the controller's input.  Read specs on panels and controller before purchasing anything, and before [[electrical:solar:series_vs_parallel|running panels in series]]. 
 + 
 +==== Relying on tilt ====
  
 Tilt is good;  perpendicular rays hitting the panel provide more power than those hitting the panel at an angle.  //Adding tilt// to your otherwise-sufficient install is good.   Having said that, //relying on tilt// advantage to meet your power goals can cause issues:  Tilt is good;  perpendicular rays hitting the panel provide more power than those hitting the panel at an angle.  //Adding tilt// to your otherwise-sufficient install is good.   Having said that, //relying on tilt// advantage to meet your power goals can cause issues: 
  
   * tilt advantage is reduced or nonexistent in poor weather conditions.     * tilt advantage is reduced or nonexistent in poor weather conditions.  
-  * tilt only makes a difference when the sun is relatively low in the sky (in winter, and/or in Washington state).  +  * tilt only makes a difference when the sun is relatively low in the sky (in winter, and/or at higher latitudes).  
   * tilt advantage is greatest when the amount of power available is least, as at sundown   * tilt advantage is greatest when the amount of power available is least, as at sundown
   * if you feel bad, lazy, hungover or otherwise unwilling to get out and tilt your panels every time you will not meet your basic needs   * if you feel bad, lazy, hungover or otherwise unwilling to get out and tilt your panels every time you will not meet your basic needs
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   * tilted panels take time to deploy, store, and interfere with your ability to leave a given location for safety or other reasons   * tilted panels take time to deploy, store, and interfere with your ability to leave a given location for safety or other reasons
  
-==== failure to add alternator charging ====+==== Failure to add alternator charging ====
  
-[[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|Adding an isolator]] can be very cheap and //supercharges// solar configs;((this effect is strongest on systems with PWM controllers))  if run at the right time it [[opinion:frater_secessus:panelsizesforinsolation|can double or triple the effectiveness of solar]], meaning one can+[[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|Adding an isolator]] can be very cheap and [[opinion:frater_secessus:panelsizesforinsolation|can supercharge solar installs]];((this effect is strongest on systems with PWM controllers))  if run at the right time it [[opinion:frater_secessus:panelsizesforinsolation|can double or triple the effectiveness of solar]], meaning one can
  
   - run more loads; and/or   - run more loads; and/or
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   - use the excess capacity to extend [[electrical:solar:sizing#your_reserve_needs|autonomy]]   - use the excess capacity to extend [[electrical:solar:sizing#your_reserve_needs|autonomy]]
  
 +----
  
-===== batteries =====+===== Batteries =====
  
 Dear lord, those poor batteries. New folks [[electrical:batterycide|kill batteries]] without even knowing it.  It's usually due to [[electrical:12v:psoc|chronic undercharging]] but people will claim they were ripped off, got old batteries, whatever soothes their soul at night.  Dear lord, those poor batteries. New folks [[electrical:batterycide|kill batteries]] without even knowing it.  It's usually due to [[electrical:12v:psoc|chronic undercharging]] but people will claim they were ripped off, got old batteries, whatever soothes their soul at night. 
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-==== not enough charging ====+==== Not enough charging ====
  
 It is a costly mistake to believe reaching 12.7v means lead batteries are [[electrical:12v:charging|fully charged]];  they certainly are not. Or to believe that "topping off" is good enough. It is a costly mistake to believe reaching 12.7v means lead batteries are [[electrical:12v:charging|fully charged]];  they certainly are not. Or to believe that "topping off" is good enough.
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-==== too much battery ====+==== Too much battery ====
  
 Yes, you can have too much battery.   Yes, you can have too much battery.  
  
-Most people use lead-chemistry batteries and carrying around unneeded lead is both heavy and expensive.  More importantly, **having more battery than you can charge fully and regularly** results in [[electrical:batterycide|battery murder]].  This is especially true for AGM batteries which typically have a //minimum// charging current requirement of C/5 (ie, 20A for 100Ah, 40A for 200Ah).  It is a rare vandweller who actually charges their AGM to [[electrical:solar:charge_controller_setpoints|manufacturer specs]] and gets a full life from them. +Most people use lead-chemistry batteries and carrying around unneeded lead is both heavy and expensive.  More importantly, **having more battery than you can charge fully and regularly** results in [[electrical:batterycide|battery murder]].  This is especially true for AGM batteries which can have a //minimum// charging current requirement of C/5 (ie, 20A for 100Ah, 40A for 200Ah).  It is a rare vandweller who actually charges their AGM to [[electrical:solar:charge_controller_setpoints|manufacturer specs]] and gets a full life from them. 
  
 Exotics like [[electrical:12v:deep_cycle_battery#lithium_chemistries|lithium]] and [[electrical:12v:deep_cycle_battery#carbon_foam_agm|carbon-foam]] aren't bothered by partial state of charge, but they are so expensive that buying too much is a self-limiting behavior. Exotics like [[electrical:12v:deep_cycle_battery#lithium_chemistries|lithium]] and [[electrical:12v:deep_cycle_battery#carbon_foam_agm|carbon-foam]] aren't bothered by partial state of charge, but they are so expensive that buying too much is a self-limiting behavior.
-==== not enough battery ====+==== Not enough battery ====
  
 It's possible to have too little battery capacity, but unless the battery is comically undersized for your needs you can [[electrical:solar:rationing|reduce power consumption]] or [[electrical:solar:nonessential|use power smarter]] to make it work. It's possible to have too little battery capacity, but unless the battery is comically undersized for your needs you can [[electrical:solar:rationing|reduce power consumption]] or [[electrical:solar:nonessential|use power smarter]] to make it work.
  
 At least you're more likely to get keep it happy and [[electrical:12v:charging|fully charged]].   At least you're more likely to get keep it happy and [[electrical:12v:charging|fully charged]].  
-==== wrong kind of battery ====+==== Wrong kind of battery ====
  
 It seems that vanfolk are making their battery choices based on the ramblings of social media influencers. This is //no bueno//. It seems that vanfolk are making their battery choices based on the ramblings of social media influencers. This is //no bueno//.
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 Third, you are unlikely to find a real deep cycle battery at a walmart or auto parts store.  Third, you are unlikely to find a real deep cycle battery at a walmart or auto parts store. 
  
-==== required maintenance ====+==== Required maintenance ====
  
 All battery banks need to be inspected regularly for damage, loose connections, and corrosion. All battery banks need to be inspected regularly for damage, loose connections, and corrosion.
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   * belief that AGM have higher capacities (they actually have slightly less capacity for a given size)   * belief that AGM have higher capacities (they actually have slightly less capacity for a given size)
   * belief that AGM can be discharged to 80% instead of 50% like flooded (they both can be discharged to any given [[electrical:depth_of_discharge|DoD]] and cycles will [[https://boondockplan.wordpress.com/2020/07/19/backchannel-agm-80-depth-of-discharged/|degrade in the same way]])   * belief that AGM can be discharged to 80% instead of 50% like flooded (they both can be discharged to any given [[electrical:depth_of_discharge|DoD]] and cycles will [[https://boondockplan.wordpress.com/2020/07/19/backchannel-agm-80-depth-of-discharged/|degrade in the same way]])
-===== solar generators =====+ 
 +---- 
 + 
 +===== Solar generators =====
  
 There are [[http://rvwiki.mlifestyle:faq_solar_generator#best_case_scenario|real use cases]] for these things, but in general they are **comically underpowered((see comments above)) and tragically overpriced**.   When you buy one you are **buying convenience**, not performance or value. There are [[http://rvwiki.mlifestyle:faq_solar_generator#best_case_scenario|real use cases]] for these things, but in general they are **comically underpowered((see comments above)) and tragically overpriced**.   When you buy one you are **buying convenience**, not performance or value.
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 As with inverters, many new folks seem to think solar generators are endless sources of power that can run huge appliances in perpetuity and do not need to be recharged.  As with inverters, many new folks seem to think solar generators are endless sources of power that can run huge appliances in perpetuity and do not need to be recharged. 
- +---- 
-===== isolators (alternator charging) =====+===== Battery Isolators (alternator charging) =====
  
 The big mistake here is believing that [[electrical:12v:alternator|an isolator]] by itself will keep a deep cycle lead chemistry battery charged and in good health.  It can't do that in most situations and for most people. The big mistake here is believing that [[electrical:12v:alternator|an isolator]] by itself will keep a deep cycle lead chemistry battery charged and in good health.  It can't do that in most situations and for most people.
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 There is **no particular benefit to upgrading the alternator** (or adding another one) beforehand.  Run the OEM alternator sanely((ie, not idling)) and replace it with a higher-output one when/if the OEM fails.  You'll be paying for labor then anyhow and the upgrade to an HD alternator will be nominal.  There is **no particular benefit to upgrading the alternator** (or adding another one) beforehand.  Run the OEM alternator sanely((ie, not idling)) and replace it with a higher-output one when/if the OEM fails.  You'll be paying for labor then anyhow and the upgrade to an HD alternator will be nominal. 
  
- +---- 
-===== inverters =====+===== Inverters =====
  
 "Inverters power fantasies better than they power appliances". - secessus "Inverters power fantasies better than they power appliances". - secessus
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 **Wasting money and power on an inverter that is larger than your forseeable needs**.  Big inverters cost much more, and tend to squander more power just in running themselves with no load.  The proper size for an inverter (if one is needed at all) is one big enough to handle all the inverter loads you plan to run at one time.((remember to account for start-up draws, not just running draws)) **Wasting money and power on an inverter that is larger than your forseeable needs**.  Big inverters cost much more, and tend to squander more power just in running themselves with no load.  The proper size for an inverter (if one is needed at all) is one big enough to handle all the inverter loads you plan to run at one time.((remember to account for start-up draws, not just running draws))
  
- +===== Refrigerators =====
-===== refrigerators =====+
  
 [[food:refrigeration|12v compressor fridges]] cost a lot of money, a few hundred to a thousand dollars. If you see a new "fridge" for $100 it's almost certainly a power-sucking, underperforming Peltier (thermoelectric) cooler.  It's rarely what you want.   [[food:refrigeration|12v compressor fridges]] cost a lot of money, a few hundred to a thousand dollars. If you see a new "fridge" for $100 it's almost certainly a power-sucking, underperforming Peltier (thermoelectric) cooler.  It's rarely what you want.  
  
-===== staying in one place =====+===== Staying in one place =====
  
 A common mistake is the belief (or wish) to stay in one place for free.  You can't stay in one place [[camping:dispersed|on public land]] for very long (14 days is common) and staying in one places while  A common mistake is the belief (or wish) to stay in one place for free.  You can't stay in one place [[camping:dispersed|on public land]] for very long (14 days is common) and staying in one places while 
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-===== stealth =====+===== Stealth =====
  
  
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   * believing one can be 100% stealth and not be noticed; and   * believing one can be 100% stealth and not be noticed; and
   * believing the opposite, that one cannot tilt the balance in one's favor of not being kicked out of a spot   * believing the opposite, that one cannot tilt the balance in one's favor of not being kicked out of a spot
 +  * staying in one spot for days/weeks/months then being shocked at being kicked out
  
  
-===== money ===== 
  
 +===== Money =====
  
-==== jobs ====+ 
 +==== Jobs ====
  
 Ahem.  FFS, please stop asking "what jobs do y'all do on the road????".  [[https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/search?q=work+OR+job&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all|It's been asked and answered]] //ad nauseum//.  Show some effort.  Ahem.  FFS, please stop asking "what jobs do y'all do on the road????".  [[https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/search?q=work+OR+job&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all|It's been asked and answered]] //ad nauseum//.  Show some effort. 
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 It's easy to **run out of money during the build**, either by going crazy with what you want or by underestimating what it will cost.  Remember **the build needs to please you** and no one else.   It's easy to **run out of money during the build**, either by going crazy with what you want or by underestimating what it will cost.  Remember **the build needs to please you** and no one else.  
  
-==== expenses ====+==== Expenses ====
  
 Living in a vehicle can be [[lifestyle:expenses|cheap or very expensive]], depending on the 'dwellers choices.  Living in a vehicle can be [[lifestyle:expenses|cheap or very expensive]], depending on the 'dwellers choices. 
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   * **overpaying for "unlimited" data plans** when you could [[communication:bandwidth_conservation|use less bandwidth]], use [[communication:internet#mobile_data|an MVNO]] instead of a major carrier, etc. If you "need unlimited for work" then why aren't you writing off that expense already?     * **overpaying for "unlimited" data plans** when you could [[communication:bandwidth_conservation|use less bandwidth]], use [[communication:internet#mobile_data|an MVNO]] instead of a major carrier, etc. If you "need unlimited for work" then why aren't you writing off that expense already?  
  
-===== research =====+---- 
 +===== Research =====
  
 Generally speaking, any question a beginner asks has already been asked/answered a kerbillion times before.  It's exhausting, and reveals that OP hasn't put forth even minimal effort.  This is so common that fatigued respondents write up Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) articles in the vain hope that beginners will read them.  And not ask the same questions over and over.  And over.  It also makes a place experience folk can link to instead of typing out the same damn answers every time.   Generally speaking, any question a beginner asks has already been asked/answered a kerbillion times before.  It's exhausting, and reveals that OP hasn't put forth even minimal effort.  This is so common that fatigued respondents write up Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) articles in the vain hope that beginners will read them.  And not ask the same questions over and over.  And over.  It also makes a place experience folk can link to instead of typing out the same damn answers every time.  
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 Here are [[communication:internet:search|some tips on improving your search abilities]] ("google-fu").   Here are [[communication:internet:search|some tips on improving your search abilities]] ("google-fu").  
  
-===== advice =====+===== buying random stuff ===== 
 + 
 +**OP:** {buys random gear without understanding needs, specs, how it works, or anything else really}  \\ 
 +**OP:** why does my system not work?  It'S jUnk!!!!  \\ 
 +**Onlookers:**  because you bought random stuff and threw it together 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 +===== Advice =====
 Good advice can save time, money, and heartbreak. But getting good advice is not simple or even natural. We have to slow down and force ourselves to think about the issues, our questions, the existing body of knowledge, the answers we receive. Good advice can save time, money, and heartbreak. But getting good advice is not simple or even natural. We have to slow down and force ourselves to think about the issues, our questions, the existing body of knowledge, the answers we receive.
 The most important thing is no matter what advice you get or take, **it's your life and you have final responsibility for it**.  Your decisions are your own.  Make them wisely. The most important thing is no matter what advice you get or take, **it's your life and you have final responsibility for it**.  Your decisions are your own.  Make them wisely.
-===== wanting easy answers =====+==== wanting personal attention from an internet-famous person ==== 
 + 
 +No, Bob Wells and or Will Prowse will not answer your plea in person.  There are thousands of you and one of them.  If you want personal help pay a consultant or buy a pizza for a geeky friend.  
 + 
 + 
 + 
 +==== wanting premium support ==== 
 + 
 +{note:  this section uses Renogy as an example} 
 + 
 +Renogy operates in the value end of the spectrum and must rely on (rather good) web and product manual documention for mass support.  But since the price point is low the brand attracts a lot of first-timers and other "low information" customers who want/need individual support.   
 + 
 +Folks who want/need individual support might ultimately be happier paying 2x-3x  for a higher-end product that has enough margin to provide individual support (Victron, Morningstar, etc).  
 + 
 + 
 +==== Wanting easy answers ====
  
-Easy answers are rarely //correct// or //useful// answers.  +Easy answers are rarely //correct// or //useful// answers.  In real life "one weird trick!" solutions are exceedingly rare.  
  
 Q.  What is the best [fill in the blank?  \\ A.  Best for //what?// Q.  What is the best [fill in the blank?  \\ A.  Best for //what?//
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-==== failure to ask good questions ====+==== Failure to ask good questions ====
 The first step in getting good advice is to **ask good questions**.  It's harder than it sounds, and it is a learnable skill. The first step in getting good advice is to **ask good questions**.  It's harder than it sounds, and it is a learnable skill.
   * get a handle on what it is you [[https://xyproblem.info/|really want]]   * get a handle on what it is you [[https://xyproblem.info/|really want]]
   * [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#research|do your homework]]:  read, browse, watch youtube videos, google, **use the ding-dang search function** of the forum, subreddit, etc.   * [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#research|do your homework]]:  read, browse, watch youtube videos, google, **use the ding-dang search function** of the forum, subreddit, etc.
   * when you hit a wall //then// ask for help.  No one likes leeches, princesses, helpless snowflakes, or the lazy who expect others to do the work for them.     * when you hit a wall //then// ask for help.  No one likes leeches, princesses, helpless snowflakes, or the lazy who expect others to do the work for them.  
-  * express your request as clearly and simply as possible +  * express your request as clearly and simply as possible, including what you intend to accomplish 
-  * indicate what you do know, [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#research|what you have already read]] or tried, and any important details like what you are trying to accomplish, **the make/model of any components you are using**.  "My van don't go.  Help." is unlikely to generate usable advice. +  * shouldn't have to say this, but here we are:  list **the make/model of any components you are using** and how they are connected 
-  * use human-readable style.  Avoid run-on sentences, "wall of text" word vomit with no organization, punctuation, or paragraph breaks. +  * indicate what you do know, [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#research|what you have already read]] or tried 
-  * write a concise and specific title.  "Configuring a Morningstar TS-45 MPPT" is good.  "don't understand solar!!!!!!!!" is not so good. "Can anyone answer this??!?" is annoying and manipulative.  Also, any title that includes the word "anyone" indicates a low-effort question.  Why should //we// care if //you// don't?+  * write a concise and specific title.  "Configuring a Morningstar TS-45 MPPT" is good.  "don't understand solar!!!!!!!!" is not so good. "Can anyone answer this??!?" is annoying and manipulative.  Also, any title that includes the word "anyone" indicates a low-effort question that could likely be answered by a 10-second search.  Why should //we// care if //you// don't? 
 +  * write the post in normal, human-readable style.  Avoid run-on sentences, "wall of text" word vomit with no organization, punctuation, or paragraph breaks.  We aren't writing  masters thesis here but write it so the post wouldn't give your 8th grade English teacher a stroke.  
 + 
  
 > I am always surprised to see some people demanding the time of others and meeting a most obliging response. Both sides have in view the reason for which the time is asked and neither regards the time itself — as if nothing there is being asked for and nothing given.  - Seneca > I am always surprised to see some people demanding the time of others and meeting a most obliging response. Both sides have in view the reason for which the time is asked and neither regards the time itself — as if nothing there is being asked for and nothing given.  - Seneca
-==== failure to judge advice ====+==== Failure to judge advice ====
  
 When advice comes in, consider the source: When advice comes in, consider the source:
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   * how does the responder react to other points of view?   * how does the responder react to other points of view?
   * is the responder a salescritter or consultant with a vested interest?   * is the responder a salescritter or consultant with a vested interest?
 +  * does the responder spread [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt|Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt]]?
   * is the responder willing to go for "the best!" with //your// money but not with their own?   * is the responder willing to go for "the best!" with //your// money but not with their own?
   * is the responder a partisan of some kind:  anti-Renogy, pro-Renogy, etc   * is the responder a partisan of some kind:  anti-Renogy, pro-Renogy, etc
   * is the responder an idiot, a druggie, a zero-experience dreamer, a poorly-informed blowhard, a black/white thinker?     * is the responder an idiot, a druggie, a zero-experience dreamer, a poorly-informed blowhard, a black/white thinker?  
   * is the advice upvoted/downvoted/liked by onlookers?   * is the advice upvoted/downvoted/liked by onlookers?
 +  * is the advice commented on favorably by onlookers whose opinion you value?
   * does the responder have experience and/or training in the area?   * does the responder have experience and/or training in the area?
   * does the responder expect you to believe him/her as gospel?     * does the responder expect you to believe him/her as gospel?  
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 None of these preclude the advice from being correct, but do take these factors into consideration. None of these preclude the advice from being correct, but do take these factors into consideration.
-==== failure to take good advice ====+==== Failure to take good advice ====
 There are folks who come up with foolish ideas then want others to give them support and encouragement.  They receive instruction on why it doesn't work, why it historically hasn't worked, and why OP is unlikely to make it work.  These interactions follow a pattern: There are folks who come up with foolish ideas then want others to give them support and encouragement.  They receive instruction on why it doesn't work, why it historically hasn't worked, and why OP is unlikely to make it work.  These interactions follow a pattern:
  
opinion/frater_secessus/beginner_mistakes.txt · Last modified: 2024/07/05 12:03 by frater_secessus

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