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opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes [2022/02/12 14:08] frater_secessus [Electrical Power] |
opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes [2024/04/01 12:41] frater_secessus [Mismatched panels] |
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For whatever reason, vandwelling attracts an outsized percentage of daydreamers, | For whatever reason, vandwelling attracts an outsized percentage of daydreamers, | ||
- | People | + | Those who have a good chance at successful ' |
- | * people who have camped or backpacked and liked it | + | |
- | * people who are self-motivated | + | |
- | * people who are disciplined | + | |
- | * people who can figure things out for themselves | + | |
- | * people who know basic cooking | + | |
- | * people who have good DIY skills and fix-it/ | + | |
+ | * Have camped or backpacked and liked it | ||
+ | * Have good DIY skills and fix-it/ | ||
+ | * Know basic cooking and are okay with simpler foods | ||
+ | * Are the " | ||
+ | * Are instinctive " | ||
+ | * Are very organized and good at planning | ||
+ | * Are flexible when things don't go according to their plan | ||
+ | * Are okay with being alone for long periods of time (introverts) | ||
People who are less likely to adapt to the life: | People who are less likely to adapt to the life: | ||
- | * the "high maintenance" | + | * The "high maintenance" |
- | * social | + | * People who cannot tolerate being physically uncomfortable for extended periods of time. |
- | * People | + | * chronic worriers |
- | * people who make little effort and want to be spoon-fed | + | * Social |
- | * stoners, daydreamers, | + | * Those who don't like having to understand |
- | * those that need internet access 24/7 | + | * Stoners, daydreamers, |
- | * people who can't or won't take care of themselves | + | * Those that need internet access 24/7 |
- | * the easily bored | + | * The easily bored |
- | * people | + | * People |
- | * picky eaters | + | * Picky eaters |
+ | Further reading: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Red Flags ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Worships Christopher McCandless and 'Into The Wild' | ||
+ | * Wants to run away | ||
+ | * Thinks that Vanlife will be " | ||
===== Planning ===== | ===== Planning ===== | ||
Line 60: | Line 69: | ||
//fit for your purpose// and // | //fit for your purpose// and // | ||
- | * the first van you see | + | * The first van you see |
- | * what is depicted on social media | + | * A " |
- | * what others tell you to buy | + | * What is depicted on social media |
- | * the cheapest van you can find | + | * What others tell you to buy |
+ | * The cheapest van you can find | ||
* etc | * etc | ||
The seller must have a title in hand, and it must be in their name. The van must receive a pre-sale inspection from an independent mechanic. | The seller must have a title in hand, and it must be in their name. The van must receive a pre-sale inspection from an independent mechanic. | ||
- | It is //highly advisable// to **not** buy a fixer-upper or "Needs a little TLC" van as your first van, unless you have extensive mechanical abilities/ | + | **DO NOT** buy a fixer-upper or "Needs a little TLC" van as your first van, unless you have extensive mechanical abilities/ |
==== Failure to find vans ==== | ==== Failure to find vans ==== | ||
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==== Failure to inspect the van ==== | ==== Failure to inspect the van ==== | ||
- | The answer to the "what do I look for with a used van?" FAQ is "a mechanic" | + | The short answer to the "[[rv: |
The mechanic knows what to look for. Finding things that need repair is not necessarily a deal-breaker; | The mechanic knows what to look for. Finding things that need repair is not necessarily a deal-breaker; | ||
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- have typically invested thousands of dollars in battery banks and solar, or run a [[electrical: | - have typically invested thousands of dollars in battery banks and solar, or run a [[electrical: | ||
- | Electric heating is such a massive power draw that it can be an extremely effective | + | Electric heating is such a massive power draw that it's often used as a way to [[electrical: |
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==== Failure to consider all loads ==== | ==== Failure to consider all loads ==== | ||
- | Posts that include "my needs are simple, all I need are lights and a fan" develop, after questioning, | + | Posts that include "my needs are simple, all I need are lights and a fan" |
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | Actual examples: | ||
+ | |||
+ | * "All I need is something to charge my phone, laptop, run my light and two small fans" (and an electric kettle) | ||
+ | * "I don't use any of my appliances for long" (except "my small hot plate for about 2-3 hours" | ||
+ | * "What are the **most basic features** that are required to travel/live in a van in the US? I'm thinking something like a bed, **an airfryer**, and some food/ gear storage." | ||
[[rv: | [[rv: | ||
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There are dreams and fantasies, then there is **what will actually work on the road**. | There are dreams and fantasies, then there is **what will actually work on the road**. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== failure to think realistically about charging ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | //Using// power is the fun/easy part; //making// power is the grind that will determine how often and how long you get to do the fun part, and how often and long you will sit in the dark with dead batteries. Think of how easy it is to spend money vs earn money. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Choosing [[electrical: | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Underbuilding the power system ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Most people will lowball how [[electrical: | ||
==== Overbuilding the power system ==== | ==== Overbuilding the power system ==== | ||
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* [[http:// | * [[http:// | ||
- | ---- | + | ==== Wanting to charging from EV charging stations ==== |
+ | |||
+ | While most things are technically // | ||
+ | |||
+ | Further reading: | ||
+ | |||
+ | * [[https:// | ||
===== Solar ===== | ===== Solar ===== | ||
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Having no solar at all is generally an unforced error for vandwellers. | Having no solar at all is generally an unforced error for vandwellers. | ||
- | ==== Worrying | + | ==== believing 100w of panel will make 100w all day long ==== |
+ | |||
+ | The 100w panel will make 100w in a lab in test conditions. | ||
+ | |||
+ | - the panel will rarely make anywhere close to 100w((under normal conditions)) | ||
+ | - the max power it //does// make will be around local solar noon. Before and after that power will be less. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Example: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ^ Time ^ Watts ^ | ||
+ | |6:02a |0w| | ||
+ | |7:02a |0w((panel voltage too low))| | ||
+ | |8:02A |32.8w| | ||
+ | |9:02A |48.7w| | ||
+ | |10:02A |62.3w| | ||
+ | |11:02A |72.8w| | ||
+ | |12:02A |79.39w| | ||
+ | |**1:02p** - local solar noon |81.7w| | ||
+ | |2:02 |79.5w| | ||
+ | |3:02p |72.9w| | ||
+ | |4:02p |62.5w| | ||
+ | |5:02p |48.9w| | ||
+ | |6:02p |33.1w| | ||
+ | |7:02p |0w((panel voltage too low))| | ||
+ | |8:02p |0w| | ||
+ | |||
+ | See the //not enough panel// section below. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== believing 100w of panel will make 100w all year ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Solar harvest is greatly affected by the position of the sun in the sky (see above) and how many hours of that sun are available. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== believing 100w of panel will make 100w in all conditions ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | 100w of panel makes 100w under lab (ie, perfect) conditions. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== believing solar makes zero watts in rain, overcast, etc ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Solar rarely makes //zero// watts. I find that at local solar noon at lower latitudes my flat-mounted panels make: | ||
+ | |||
+ | * 5%-10% of rated power in **thunderstorms and dark overcast** | ||
+ | * 20%-30% of rated power in **normal full overcast** | ||
+ | * 33%-50% of rated power in **bright overcast** | ||
+ | * 70%-90% of rated power under **full sun** | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== believing they will set out portable panels ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Mounted panels make power whenever sunlight is available. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Be realistic: | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== shade ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | [[electrical: | ||
+ | |||
+ | Unforced errors include mounting the panels | ||
+ | |||
+ | * on a rack that has ladder retention uprights | ||
+ | * on a rack that has raised sides | ||
+ | * on the bottom of a roof basket | ||
+ | * below a roof basket (!!!) | ||
+ | * near taller objects like vent hoods, antennas, cargo boxes, awning mounts, etc | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== worrying about solar ==== | ||
Yes, [[electrical: | Yes, [[electrical: | ||
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=== Panels that won't fit === | === Panels that won't fit === | ||
- | Beginners sometimes buy panels before measuring the available roofspace. | + | Beginners sometimes buy [[electrical: |
=== Toy panels === | === Toy panels === | ||
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On the other end of the extreme, larger(200w+), | On the other end of the extreme, larger(200w+), | ||
- | === Flex panels | + | === panel type === |
+ | After size, the most common mistakes are in **choosing the wrong [[electrical: | ||
- | After size, the most common mistakes are in **choosing the wrong panel type**. | + | First things first: |
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Don't get me started on people **flat-mounting poly/mono flex panels to the roof of their van**. | Don't get me started on people **flat-mounting poly/mono flex panels to the roof of their van**. | ||
+ | |||
=== Panel types and controllers === | === Panel types and controllers === | ||
- | It's also possible to combine the **wrong panel type for the controller**. | + | It's also possible to combine the **wrong panel type for the [[electrical: |
**Poly pairs well with [[electrical: | **Poly pairs well with [[electrical: | ||
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Understand that **efficiency is a relationship between rated output and physical panel size**: | Understand that **efficiency is a relationship between rated output and physical panel size**: | ||
This means **if you have limited space you will get more power out of of the same space using higher-efficiency panels**. | This means **if you have limited space you will get more power out of of the same space using higher-efficiency panels**. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Mismatched panels ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Mismatched panels (different voltage or current [[electrical: | ||
+ | |||
+ | * running // | ||
+ | * run different-spec panels on their own controller | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you are committed to running mismatched panels on the same controller see [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | === on MPPT controllers === | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | The math for mismatched series max power on MPPT((https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | (Vmp panel 1 + Vmp panel 2) x lowest Imp of either panel | ||
+ | |||
+ | In parallel, | ||
+ | (Imp panel 1 + Imp panel 2) x lowest Vmp of either panel | ||
+ | |||
+ | === on PWM controllers === | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | Because PWM runs panels at ~Vbatt, the math mismatched series max power on PWM is | ||
+ | |||
+ | battery voltage x lowest Isc of either panel | ||
+ | |||
+ | In parallel, mismatched voltages won't make much difference unless one is lower than bank voltage. | ||
+ | |||
+ | (Isc panel 1 + Isc panel 2) x battery voltage | ||
+ | |||
==== Not enough panel ==== | ==== Not enough panel ==== | ||
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Let's address two issues: | Let's address two issues: | ||
- | Yes, there are situations where zero solar is part of a workable power plan but they are rare.(([[electrical: | + | Yes, there are [[electrical: |
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | For [[electrical: | ||
The majority of ' | The majority of ' | ||
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Buying "more panel than you need" usually costs extra money directly (panel cost * quantity) and indirectly (may need a bigger controller). | Buying "more panel than you need" usually costs extra money directly (panel cost * quantity) and indirectly (may need a bigger controller). | ||
+ | |||
+ | Having said all that, you can have too much [[electrical: | ||
==== Relying on tilt ==== | ==== Relying on tilt ==== | ||
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* tilt advantage is reduced or nonexistent in poor weather conditions. | * tilt advantage is reduced or nonexistent in poor weather conditions. | ||
- | * tilt only makes a difference when the sun is relatively low in the sky (in winter, and/ | + | * tilt only makes a difference when the sun is relatively low in the sky (in winter, and/ |
* tilt advantage is greatest when the amount of power available is least, as at sundown | * tilt advantage is greatest when the amount of power available is least, as at sundown | ||
* if you feel bad, lazy, hungover or otherwise unwilling to get out and tilt your panels every time you will not meet your basic needs | * if you feel bad, lazy, hungover or otherwise unwilling to get out and tilt your panels every time you will not meet your basic needs | ||
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==== Failure to add alternator charging ==== | ==== Failure to add alternator charging ==== | ||
- | [[electrical: | + | [[electrical: |
- run more loads; and/or | - run more loads; and/or | ||
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===== Batteries ===== | ===== Batteries ===== | ||
- | Dear lord, those poor batteries. New folks [[electrical: | + | Dear lord, those poor batteries. New folks [[electrical: |
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Yes, you can have too much battery. | Yes, you can have too much battery. | ||
- | Most people use lead-chemistry batteries and carrying around unneeded lead is both heavy and expensive. | + | Most people use lead-chemistry batteries and carrying around unneeded lead is both heavy and expensive. |
Exotics like [[electrical: | Exotics like [[electrical: | ||
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* believing one can be 100% stealth and not be noticed; and | * believing one can be 100% stealth and not be noticed; and | ||
* believing the opposite, that one cannot tilt the balance in one's favor of not being kicked out of a spot | * believing the opposite, that one cannot tilt the balance in one's favor of not being kicked out of a spot | ||
+ | * staying in one spot for days/ | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
- | ---- | ||
===== Money ===== | ===== Money ===== | ||
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**Onlookers: | **Onlookers: | ||
+ | Read and understand specs //before// buying stuff. | ||
+ | Actual examples: | ||
+ | >> I bought a Ecoflow Delta to... to fire up a Chinese diesel heater... However, the heater draws too much juice from the 12v car port to run. | ||
+ | . | ||
+ | >> I recently got a portable kettle that’s collapsable, | ||
===== Advice ===== | ===== Advice ===== | ||
Good advice can save time, money, and heartbreak. But getting good advice is not simple or even natural. We have to slow down and force ourselves to think about the issues, our questions, the existing body of knowledge, the answers we receive. | Good advice can save time, money, and heartbreak. But getting good advice is not simple or even natural. We have to slow down and force ourselves to think about the issues, our questions, the existing body of knowledge, the answers we receive. | ||
The most important thing is no matter what advice you get or take, **it's your life and you have final responsibility for it**. Your decisions are your own. Make them wisely. | The most important thing is no matter what advice you get or take, **it's your life and you have final responsibility for it**. Your decisions are your own. Make them wisely. | ||
- | ===== Wanting | + | |
+ | ==== making helpers guess ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you are asking for help don't make the helpers guess what you are trying to accomplish, what gear you have, whether or not it has ever worked, etc. People across the internet cannot see what's in front of you -- all we have to go on is what you tell us. | ||
+ | |||
+ | You may want to start a text document that lists all the installed gear and significant settings so | ||
+ | |||
+ | - you have a clearer understanding; | ||
+ | - can paste it into a post when you need help | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== thrashing ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | // | ||
+ | |||
+ | Slow down. //Listen// to what people are telling you. Think about what you want to accomplish. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | >>The best thing is to slow down and actually understand what's going on, then decide where you eventually want to take the system and move deliberately in that direction. It's not a “one weird trick” situation – gertzerlla((The best thing is to slow down and actually understand what's going on, then decide where you eventually want to take the system and move deliberately in that direction. It's not a “one weird trick” situation – gertzerlla76))) | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== wanting personal attention from an internet-famous person ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | No, Bob Wells and or Will Prowse will not answer your plea in person. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== wanting | ||
{note: | {note: | ||
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==== Wanting easy answers ==== | ==== Wanting easy answers ==== | ||
- | Easy answers are rarely //correct// or //useful// answers. | + | Easy answers are rarely //correct// or //useful// answers. In real life "one weird trick!" |
Q. What is the best [fill in the blank? | Q. What is the best [fill in the blank? | ||
- | Q. How much battery/ | + | Q. How much battery/ |
Q. Is [fill in the blank] miles too many? \\ A. It depends. | Q. Is [fill in the blank] miles too many? \\ A. It depends. | ||
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==== Failure to ask good questions ==== | ==== Failure to ask good questions ==== | ||
- | The first step in getting good advice is to **ask good questions**. | + | The first step in getting good advice is to **ask good questions**. |
* get a handle on what it is you [[https:// | * get a handle on what it is you [[https:// | ||
* [[opinion: | * [[opinion: | ||
* when you hit a wall //then// ask for help. No one likes leeches, princesses, helpless snowflakes, or the lazy who expect others to do the work for them. | * when you hit a wall //then// ask for help. No one likes leeches, princesses, helpless snowflakes, or the lazy who expect others to do the work for them. | ||
- | * express your request as clearly and simply as possible | + | * express your request as clearly and simply as possible, including what you intend to accomplish |
- | * indicate what you do know, [[opinion: | + | * shouldn' |
- | * use human-readable style. | + | * indicate what you do know, [[opinion: |
- | * write a concise and specific title. | + | * write a concise and specific title. |
+ | * write the post in normal, human-readable style. | ||
+ | |||
> I am always surprised to see some people demanding the time of others and meeting a most obliging response. Both sides have in view the reason for which the time is asked and neither regards the time itself — as if nothing there is being asked for and nothing given. | > I am always surprised to see some people demanding the time of others and meeting a most obliging response. Both sides have in view the reason for which the time is asked and neither regards the time itself — as if nothing there is being asked for and nothing given. | ||
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* is the responder an idiot, a druggie, a zero-experience dreamer, a poorly-informed blowhard, a black/white thinker? | * is the responder an idiot, a druggie, a zero-experience dreamer, a poorly-informed blowhard, a black/white thinker? | ||
* is the advice upvoted/ | * is the advice upvoted/ | ||
+ | * is the advice commented on favorably by onlookers whose opinion you value? | ||
* does the responder have experience and/or training in the area? | * does the responder have experience and/or training in the area? | ||
* does the responder expect you to believe him/her as gospel? | * does the responder expect you to believe him/her as gospel? | ||
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None of these preclude the advice from being correct, but do take these factors into consideration. | None of these preclude the advice from being correct, but do take these factors into consideration. | ||
==== Failure to take good advice ==== | ==== Failure to take good advice ==== | ||
- | There are folks who come up with foolish ideas then want others to give them support and encouragement. | ||
- | | + | There are folks who come up with foolish ideas then want others to give them support and encouragement. |
+ | |||
+ | | ||
- experienced ' | - experienced ' | ||
- OP gets mad -- they' | - OP gets mad -- they' | ||
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- OP retreats back to his hazy dreamworld and is never heard from again | - OP retreats back to his hazy dreamworld and is never heard from again | ||
- | This behavior is expected from 7th grade boys who have fantasies of building the best, fastest, most epic fast/ | + | This behavior is expected from 7th grade boys who have fantasies of building the best, fastest, most epic fast/ |
If you want closure on the issue, [[https:// | If you want closure on the issue, [[https:// | ||