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hvac:heating [2022/01/11 18:34]
princess_fluffypants [Vented Heaters] |
hvac:heating [2024/11/22 19:38] (current)
frater_secessus [Non-ventilated Propane Heaters] |
| Many RVers [[camping:snowbirding|snowbird]] to get away from temperature extremes, but others enjoy the cold or sometimes get caught in it. The method one uses for staying warm will depend on whether or not one has "[[camping:hookup|hookups]]" (grid connection). | Many RVers [[camping:snowbirding|snowbird]] to get away from temperature extremes, but others enjoy the cold or sometimes get caught in it. The method one uses for staying warm will depend on whether or not one has "[[camping:hookup|hookups]]" (grid connection). |
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| TL;DR: **heating an RV from batteries/solar is impractical**.((with the exception of [[hvac:heating#contact_heating|contact heating]])) We generally use propane. | TL;DR: **heating an RV from batteries/solar is impractical**.((with the exception of [[hvac:heating#contact_heating|contact heating]])) We generally use propane. Vented diesel heaters are increasingly popular given the very low cost and tolerable build quality of chinese knock-off models. |
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| > "Fear of propane will be expensive." -- Sternwake((https://vandwellerforum.com/thread-3260-post-55086.html#pid55086)) | > "Fear of propane will be expensive." -- Sternwake((https://vandwellerforum.com/thread-3260-post-55086.html#pid55086)) |
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| When [[electrical:shore_power|shore power]] is available electric space heating may be preferable for air quality reasons. | When [[electrical:shore_power|shore power]] is available electric space heating may be preferable for air quality reasons. |
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| | ===== Heat Requirements ===== |
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| | [[https://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/threads/the-math-how-large-of-a-heater-is-required-to-keep-an-insulated-van-warm.93037/|Here's a good post about figuring out how powerful of a heater you need in your van.]] |
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| === Diesel ventilated heaters === | === Diesel ventilated heaters === |
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| {{https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716NFKtNpoL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?100 }} Diesel fuel is //incredibly// energy dense and burns //very// hot, making it the ideal candidate for powering a ventilated heater. Even the smaller diesel heaters are capable of putting out over 2kw of heat and the larger ones are rated for nearly 6kw, //four times// as much as an electric space heater. | {{https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716NFKtNpoL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg?170 }} Diesel fuel is energy dense and burns very hot, making it the ideal candidate for powering a ventilated heater. |
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| [[https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/heating-solutions/recreational-vehicles/air-heaters/|Westabo]] is the major brand name in the market, however recently Chinese knock-off diesel heaters have come on the scene and results have generally been positive. | [[https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/heating-solutions/recreational-vehicles/air-heaters/|Webasto]] is the major brand name in the market, however recently Chinese knock-off diesel heaters have come on the scene and results have generally been positive. They also cost like 1/10th what a Webasto does, so even if you replace it every year you're still well ahead of the game |
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| * [[https://amzn.to/2YKbVWE|happybuy]] recommended by maddoggrimmyjimmy((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/fal28ap/)) | * [[https://amzn.to/2YKbVWE|happybuy]] recommended by maddoggrimmyjimmy((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/fal28ap/)) |
| * [[https://amzn.to/2t7wCjx|superfastracing]] recommended by likesweirdthings((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/famw6ja/)) | * [[https://amzn.to/2t7wCjx|superfastracing]] recommended by likesweirdthings((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/e9ptvk/i_bought_myself_a_promaster_and_the_next_steps/famw6ja/)) |
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| | Check out [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvwmU_CcmGI&t=25s|this youtube channel]] for a //very// long and detailed breakdown of Chinese diesel heaters, how they work, and how to avoid some of the common pitfalls/failures. |
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| | General advice is to keep a spare fuel pump, glow plug, and maybe controller on hand if you are relying on the heater for survival. |
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| | See [[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLne7MoW21Rk01DYGGfOqIbYt6H1ZFSFks|this exhaustive playlist]] about diesel heaters. |
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| | For those with [[electrical:12v:alternator|alternator charging setups]] babycakesman suggests: |
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| | >> The diesel heater draws the most power during its startup cycle((heating the glow plug)), so it can be a good power saving move to start it up while the engine is still running when you park for the night.((https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/comments/19emcl2/solar_for_800/kjhbdck/)) |
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| === Gasoline Ventilated Heaters === | === Gasoline Ventilated Heaters === |
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| Gasoline burns less hot than diesel, so the fuel consumption for a given amount of heat is going to be higher. Gasoline can also be more susceptible to [[https://faroutride.com/air-heater-installation/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-7|coking/soot issues]] especially when run at the "Low" heat setting. However if you have a gasoline van already, being able to run the heater directly off of the vehicle's existing gas tank is a huge convenience factor. Some vans (Such as the [[rv:ford_transit|Ford Transit]]) can be ordered with an auxiliary fuel tank connection specifically for situations like this. Just plan on having to [[https://faroutride.com/webasto-install-new-burner/|clean/replace the burner]] every year or so. | Gasoline burns less hot than diesel, so the fuel consumption for a given amount of heat is going to be higher. Gasoline can also be more susceptible to [[https://faroutride.com/air-heater-installation/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-7|coking/soot issues]] especially when run at the "Low" heat setting. However if you have a gasoline van already, being able to run the heater directly off of the vehicle's existing gas tank is a huge convenience factor. Some vans (Such as the [[rv:ford_transit|Ford Transit]]) can be ordered with an auxiliary fuel tank connection specifically for situations like this. Just plan on having to [[https://faroutride.com/webasto-install-new-burner/|clean/replace the burner]] every year or so. |
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| | The smaller gasoline heaters also have more problems with high altitude. The manufactuer doesn't recommend running them above 4,900ft due to the extreme difficulties of sustaining combustion with small burners. [[https://youtu.be/AkL8FE7N-CM?t=967|Here is an interview with the company where they get into the details of why]]. They recommend that if you do plan on spending a lot of time at high elevations, to upgrade to the larger 4kw heater, and to make sure to run it hard. |
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| === Propane Ventilated Heaters === | === Propane Ventilated Heaters === |
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| Propane burns the least hot of the three fuels, but it also burns easiest and cleanest. Propane ventilated heaters do not suffer from the soot problems that gasoline and diesel heaters can, and they're usually far less fussy about altitude adjustments. If you're into low/no maintenance and want to use a set-it-and-forget-it thermostat, this is the one for you. [[https://www.propexheatsource.com/|Propex]] is the common go-to. | Propane burns the least hot of the three fuels, but it also burns easiest and cleanest. Propane ventilated heaters do not suffer from the soot problems that gasoline and diesel heaters can, and they're usually far less fussy about altitude adjustments. If you're into low/no maintenance and want to use a set-it-and-forget-it thermostat, this is the one for you. [[https://www.propexheatsource.com/|Propex]] is the common go-to. |
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| | Cost is the biggest downside; the heaters cost more than //ten times// what a cheap chinese diesel heater does. |
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| ==== Non-ventilated Propane Heaters ==== | ==== Non-ventilated Propane Heaters ==== |
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| Burning propane doesn't produce the poisonous exhaust that diesel and gasoline does, and therefor can //sort of// safely be run indoors without ventilating the exhaust products. There are a couple of things to remember about this method though: | Note: these are called //non-ventilated// heaters because there is no external exhaust for the heater. |
| * Burning propane **generates water vapor** which will increase the humidity in your vehicle. You may require additional ventilation or [[hvac:dehumidifier|dehumidification]]. | |
| * Burning propane **generates carbon dioxide.** Even clean-burning, low CO2 emission heaters **generate much more CO in low oxygen levels**. This is the reason you are supposed to ventilate. | * **Ventilation of the heated space is still required**. (ie the heater isn't vented but your living space must be) |
| | * the primary outputs of propane combustion/catalysis are **water vapor** and **CO2**. This means running an unvented propane heater will increase the humidity in your vehicle. You may require additional ventilation or [[hvac:dehumidifier|dehumidification]] unless you are in an area with very low humidity. |
| | * **if O2 levels are too low** (due to insufficient ventilation) the reaction gives off **increasingly-deadly amounts of CO**((carbon *mon*oxide)). This is the same culprit as deaths from folks running generators indoors, vehicles in the garage, etc. So we keep O2 levels normal by ventilating the space. |
| * Any forced air heater will require electrical power to run the fan. | * Any forced air heater will require electrical power to run the fan. |
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| === Flame === | === Flame === |
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| [[http://amzn.to/2gRq7qB|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Fp5yqOMpL._AC_US160_.jpg}}]] | Although Chinese Diesel Heaters are becoming more popular, traditionally [[http://amzn.to/2gRq7qB|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Fp5yqOMpL._AC_US160_.jpg}}]] |
| The most common way to heat off-grid is with open flame propane, and the most common non-OEM propane heater for RVers is the [[http://amzn.to/2gE6pB7|Mr.Heater Buddy]] series. | the most common way to heat vehicles off-grid has been with open flame propane. The most common non-OEM propane heater for RVers is the [[http://amzn.to/2gE6pB7|Mr.Heater Buddy]] series. They use direct flame to heat a ceramic matrix like the old gas heater at your grandparent's house. |
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| * [[http://amzn.to/2pPW7C1|Little Buddy]] - 3800btu.((1113w equivalent)) A small round unit that mounts directly to a 1# propane bottle. It's rather tall -- compare the size of the 1# propane bottle it sits on. | * [[http://amzn.to/2pPW7C1|Little Buddy]] - 3800btu.((1113w equivalent)) A small round unit that mounts directly to a 1# propane bottle. It's rather tall -- compare the size of the 1# propane bottle it sits on. |
| * [[http://amzn.to/2qdlzCO|Buddy]] - 4000btu((1172w equivalent)), 9000btu((2677w equivalent)). This is the most common Buddy heater. Sometimes called Portable Buddy by the manufacturer.((http://amzn.to/2pnEXZS)) | * [[http://amzn.to/2qdlzCO|Buddy]] - 4000btu((1172w equivalent)), 9000btu((2677w equivalent)). This is the most common Buddy heater. Sometimes called Portable Buddy by the manufacturer.((http://amzn.to/2pnEXZS)) |
| * [[http://amzn.to/2p9A6zk|Big Buddy]] - 400btu, 9000btu, 18,000btu. Oversized for most camper applications. | * [[http://amzn.to/2p9A6zk|Big Buddy]] - 4000btu, 9000btu, 18,000btu. Oversized for most camper applications. |
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| Tip: you can turn the Buddy down //below// the LOW setting by depressing the gas knob like you are turning it off, then //slowly// easing the setting back to the desired level. The flames will "flutter" a bit if set too low -- increase slightly from that point. Check your CO detector to make sure your CO output isn't increased. | Tip: you can turn the Buddy down //below// the LOW setting by depressing the gas knob like you are turning it off, then //slowly// easing the setting back to the desired level. The flames will "flutter" a bit if set too low -- increase slightly from that point. Check your CO detector to make sure your CO output isn't increased. |
| * heat packs | * heat packs |
| * [[http://amzn.to/2g0Cr6d|12v electric blankets]] | * [[http://amzn.to/2g0Cr6d|12v electric blankets]] |
| * electric mattress pads. | * electric mattress pads. |
| | * USB handwarmers |
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| You can also DIY heated gear with [[http://carbonheater.us/|carbon heat strips]]. | You can also DIY heated gear with [[http://carbonheater.us/|carbon heat strips]]. |
