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rv:ram_promaster [2017/10/13 06:59]
frater_secessus [roof vent fitment]
rv:ram_promaster [2023/10/21 14:49] (current)
princess_fluffypants
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 +> There is nothing, I repeat nothing, special or complicated or expensive or proprietary about the Promaster. The drivetrain, transmission, fuel system, cats, computer, hvac, braking, suspension, steering, etc are all almost EXACTLY the same as ANY Chrysler built from 2011 till today. As such, ANY decent mechanic can work on these things. There's nothing magical in there. -- Kip On Trucking((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/cost-of-ownership-too-high.89658/post-691990))
 +
 ====== Ram Promaster ====== ====== Ram Promaster ======
 {{ :rv:interiorstraight.png?200|}} {{ :rv:interiorstraight.png?200|}}
-The Promaster is based on the Fiat Ducato platform.  It is the most popular RV platform in Europe.((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato))+The Promaster is a [[rv:eurovan|eurovan]] based on the Fiat Ducato platform.  It is the most popular RV platform in Europe.((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato))
  
 The PM is a front-wheel drive platform with nearly straight sides, tight turning circle, low cargo deck height, and a wide (74") cargo area. The PM is a front-wheel drive platform with nearly straight sides, tight turning circle, low cargo deck height, and a wide (74") cargo area.
  
-It comes in low (65" standing room) and high roof (76" standing room) models, with 136" and 159" wheelbases yielding 10' and 12' cargo areas respectively.  There is also an extended body on the 159" wheelbase;  this option has a 13.33' cargo area and is only available on the 3500 model.((https://www.ramtrucks.com/en/pdf/2014_ram_promaster_eBrochure.pdf))+It comes in low (65" standing room) and high roof (76" standing room) models, and beginning in 2023 there was the introduction of the "Super High" roof (86" standing room). Wheelbase options are either 136" or 159"yielding 10' and 12' cargo areas respectively.  There is also an extended body on the 159" wheelbase;  this option has a 13.33' cargo area and is only available on the 3500 model.((https://www.ramtrucks.com/en/pdf/2014_ram_promaster_eBrochure.pdf))
  
 {{http://zombdrive.com/images/2014-ram-promaster-cargo-van-2.jpg?200|159WB; note space between end of sliding door track and rear of vehicle. }}The 1500/2500/3500 badges are ambiguous.((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182433))  The 159" wheelbase is offered on the 2500 and up..  The 159" Extended model is available only on the 3500.  The only confirmed difference between the 2500 and 3500 is a sway bar added on the 3500.((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182433&postcount=63)) {{http://zombdrive.com/images/2014-ram-promaster-cargo-van-2.jpg?200|159WB; note space between end of sliding door track and rear of vehicle. }}The 1500/2500/3500 badges are ambiguous.((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182433))  The 159" wheelbase is offered on the 2500 and up..  The 159" Extended model is available only on the 3500.  The only confirmed difference between the 2500 and 3500 is a sway bar added on the 3500.((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182433&postcount=63))
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 Note that immoderate use of brake-based controls can result in overheating or premature wear of brake components.  [ie, don't turn off ESC then keep your foot in it for 3 miles of muddy road -- secessus] Note that immoderate use of brake-based controls can result in overheating or premature wear of brake components.  [ie, don't turn off ESC then keep your foot in it for 3 miles of muddy road -- secessus]
  
 +Also see [[https://blog.fcanorthamerica.com/2008/02/11/jeep-brake-traction-control-explained/|FCA's description of a similar system]] in the Jeep line.
 +===== electrical =====
  
-===== known issues ===== +The gasoline PM has either a 180A((Lester 11792)) or an optional 220A Denso-type alternator((Lester 11793)); they are traditional "fixed voltage" and not of the modern "smart" variety [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/alternator-amps.93526/post-737110|This VIN decoder]] will indicate which alternator a van was built with. In either case the six-groove pulley ratio is 2.84:1.((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/alternator-specs-for-gas-pms.99215/post-794345))  Output when cold is ~14.3v;  voltage may be regulated down to ~13.8v when hot.  
-Most issues were rectified after 2014.+
  
 +The diesel may have a 225A unit. 
  
-Squealing brakes((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54593)).+>>  the ECM controls the field circuit, so now a computer has replaced the relatively inexpensive, stand-alone voltage regulator. Fourth, Chrysler gradually changed over to B-circuit control; this means the ECM switches the hot side of the field circuit instead of the ground side. -- [[https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/diagnosing-computer-controlled-charging-systems-september-2007/|source]]
  
  
-There is [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45193|a list of TSBs on the Promaster Forum]].+  * [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/180-amp-alternator-with-amp-clamp-on-output.99118/post-792681|This post]] on the Promaster forum shares official load estimates for various accessories. 
 +  * [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/alternator-charging%E2%80%A6too-complex-for-a-novice.95350/post-755316|This post]] describes the procedure for alternator replacement 
 +  * [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/alternator-charging-problem.89222/post-686694?nested_view=0|this post]] describes the voltage regulation via ECU
  
 +==== excess capacity at idle ====
 +
 +Using 28A as the idle draw((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/180-amp-alternator-with-amp-clamp-on-output.99118/post-792622)), 750rpm as the idle speed, 2.84 as the pulley ratio, 50% as the continuous duty rating, and the hot rating output curves linked below:
 +
 +  * at idle [[http://img.mousetrap.net/misc/altRam180A.jpg|the 180A alt]] will have ~25A excess capacity
 +  * at idle [[http://img.mousetrap.net/misc/altRam220A.jpg|the 220A alt]] will have ~37A excess capacity
 +
 +Note that the radiator fans can add 65A when they come on, reducing excess capacity to zero.
 +
 +==== fusebox layout ====
 +
 +{{https://img.mousetrap.net/pm/pmfuses.jpg?400}}
 +===== fuel consumption =====
 +
 +
 +[[https://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/promaster_2500|Data on fuelly]] suggests the gasser averages ~15mpg.  The large frontal area of the van means that reducing cruising speed may affect MPG greatly. 
 +
 +==== idling ====
 +
 +Experiments on the Promaster forum suggest idling consumption is between 0.4-0.6 GPH based on ambient temps:  
 +
 +> .6gph in winter (below 38f kicks in the high idle) and .4gph summer.((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/fuel-consumption-of-a-gasser-pm-flowmeter-for-ac-purposes-a-thought-exercise.95702/post-759330))
 +
 +Additional loads (HVAC fans, aux battery charging) would increase gph somewhat. 
 +
 +
 +===== known issues =====
 +
 +See the Promaster entry on the [[rv:van_issues|All Vans Have Issues]] page.
  
  
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   * steering wheel adjustable for distance but not angle   * steering wheel adjustable for distance but not angle
   * rough ride when empty.   * rough ride when empty.
 +  * 6th gear is very tall for MPG;  the van will downshift in headwinds and on hills.
 +  * The transmission will downshift automatically on long descents for engine braking. 
 +  * the clipboard is largely useless, but [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/clip-board.35306/|can be opened]] to allow for wiring or hardmounting accessories.
  
 ===== gas vs diesel ===== ===== gas vs diesel =====
   * a strong case for [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=101986&postcount=32|gas over diesel]] in the PM   * a strong case for [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=101986&postcount=32|gas over diesel]] in the PM
 +  * Also see [[rv:diesel|this page]] on the problems with all modern diesel engines
  
 ===== recommended dealers ===== ===== recommended dealers =====
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 ===== filters and fluids ===== ===== filters and fluids =====
  
-  * Air Filter +  * Engine air Filter ([[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9XpTexYKl0|video walkthrough]], [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/engine-and-cabin-air-filter-change-for-only-28.84287/|forum walkthrough]]) 
-    * 3.6L gas -- [[http://amzn.to/2jkoodG|EcoGuard]]((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233449&postcount=2)), WW Grainger p/n 34NN15((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=310737&postcount=8))+    * 3.6L gas -- [[http://amzn.to/2jkoodG|EcoGuard]]((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233449&postcount=2)), WW Grainger p/n 34NN15((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=310737&postcount=8)), [[https://amzn.to/3ID0EOh|PG Air Filter PA99079]]((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/engine-and-cabin-air-filter-change-for-only-28.84287/)), Carquest Premium 93703 (Advance Auto). 
 +    * 3.0L diesel -- [[https://amzn.to/3gBwezG|ECOGARD XA10258]]((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/engine-and-cabin-air-filter-change-for-only-28.84287/post-658803)), Carquest Premium 501453 (Advance Auto) 
 +  * Cabin air filter ([[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMYNjeulTpw|video walkthrough]], and same forum walkthrough post above) 
 +    * 3.6L gas -- [[https://amzn.to/3jhsc18|Ecoguard]]((media only)), [[https://amzn.to/3gBrcDc|PG]]((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/engine-and-cabin-air-filter-change-for-only-28.84287/)), Carquest Premium 504496 (Advance Auto) 
 +    * 3.0L diesel -- possibly same as for gas model
  
 +
 +  * Coolant
 +    * 3.6L gas -- FCA specifies coolant meeting [[https://amzn.to/2qCZr6z|MS-12106]]. Valvoline claims their [[https://amzn.to/2P8DLZK|Zerex Dex-Cool]] meets spec, and appear to [[https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/mopar-oat-dexcool-believe-it-or-not-238028.html|manufacture the OEM coolant for FCA]].((note that thread is about Jeeps, not Promaster))
  
   * Oil Filter   * Oil Filter
-    * 3.0L diesel +    * [[https://amzn.to/2t8Ugg0|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ab7Q0l3jL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg}}]]3.6L gas -- **Note:** the oil filter is a cartridge type located in [[https://amzn.to/2t8Ugg0|a long-necked plastic assembly]]  Do not overtighten or the oil filter housing adapter it's attached to((part of)) can crack, resulting in an oil leak.  You may want to hold the cartridge housing still with one hand while **gently** snugging the cap with [[https://amzn.to/36XaUxC|a stubby 15/16ths]] or 24mm wrench The location, lack of working space, and small diameter of the cap will likely make normal hand tightening((like we used to do on full size filters)) impractical.
-      * Baldwin B7388((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=298345&postcount=7)) +
-      * OEM 68095335AA((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257497&postcount=1))  +
-      * MAN W9009((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257497&postcount=1)) +
-      NAPA FIL 100058((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=326106&postcount=3)) +
-      WIX WL10058((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=326050&postcount=1)) +
-    * 3.6L gas+
       * Motorcraft FL2066((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171681&postcount=54))       * Motorcraft FL2066((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171681&postcount=54))
       * Purolator L36296((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171681&postcount=54))       * Purolator L36296((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171681&postcount=54))
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       * Fram = CH11665,((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50081&postcount=1)) included for completeness but rarely recommended((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50089&postcount=2))       * Fram = CH11665,((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50081&postcount=1)) included for completeness but rarely recommended((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50089&postcount=2))
       * Champ/LuberFiner = P1009((((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50081&postcount=1))))       * Champ/LuberFiner = P1009((((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50081&postcount=1))))
 +     * 3.0L diesel
 +      * Baldwin B7388((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=298345&postcount=7))
 +      * OEM 68095335AA((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257497&postcount=1)) 
 +      * MAN W9009((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257497&postcount=1))
 +      * NAPA FIL 100058((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=326106&postcount=3))
 +      * WIX WL10058((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=326050&postcount=1))
 +    
  
   * oil   * oil
-    * 3.6L gas - must meet Mopar MS 6395 or ((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187529&postcount=20)) or Fiat9.55535-CR1((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202082&postcount=2)) +       * 3.6L gas - 5w20.  must meet Mopar MS 6395 or ((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187529&postcount=20)) or Fiat9.55535-CR1((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202082&postcount=2)) 
-    * 3.0L diesel - must meet Fiat 9.55535-S1((((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202082&postcount=2))))+        * [[http://amzn.to/2sDBPix|Castrol Edge synthetic]] 
 +        * [[http://amzn.to/2Hvt7Gr|Castrol Edge extended performance synthetic]] 
 +        * [[http://amzn.to/2BEJtfu|Pennzoil Platinum]] 
 +        * [[http://amzn.to/2Caoy52|Pennzoil Ultra Platinum]] 
 +        * [[http://amzn.to/2BHk1WO|Quaker State Advanced Durability]] 
 +       3.0L diesel - must meet Fiat 9.55535-S1((((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202082&postcount=2))))
  
 [[http://amzn.to/2s7DB6A|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HSOYt0uDL._AC_US160_.jpg?200}}]] [[http://amzn.to/2s7DB6A|{{ https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HSOYt0uDL._AC_US160_.jpg?200}}]]
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-===== 62TE transmission =====+===== transmission =====
  
-This 6-speed auto is used in gas models.  It uses ATF+4 and/or Chrysler MS-9602 spec fluid.((https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/62te-problem.157606/page-2#post-1084785175))+==== ZF 9HP48 ==== 
 + 
 +Newer gas models have the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_9HP_transmission|9-speed ZF transmission]].  
 + 
 + 
 +==== 62TE transmission ==== 
 + 
 +This 6-speed auto is used in gas models.  It uses ATF+4 and/or Chrysler MS-9602 spec fluid.((https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/62te-problem.157606/page-2#post-1084785175))  \\ 
 +Note:  the trans technically has 7 forward speeds but [[https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=62te%204th%20gear%20prime|4th prime]] is only used during downshifts.
  
 One rebuilder recommends full trans service (with synthetic) every 25k miles.((http://etereman.com/blog/vw-transmission/single-tips-62te-transmission-vw-routan-running))  Frequent service and correct fluids appear to be critical: One rebuilder recommends full trans service (with synthetic) every 25k miles.((http://etereman.com/blog/vw-transmission/single-tips-62te-transmission-vw-routan-running))  Frequent service and correct fluids appear to be critical:
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-There is a possibility P0734 & P0792 transmission codes can be caused by a faulty  **TRS** (Transmission Range Sensor), an inexpensive part.((https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/62te-problem.157606/page-2#post-1084658021))+There is a possibility P0734 & P0792 transmission codes can be caused by a faulty  [[https://amzn.to/2RoP4Oo|TRS(Transmission Range Sensor)]], an inexpensive part.((https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/62te-problem.157606/page-2#post-1084658021))
  
 A whine from the transmission that sounds like a power steering pump may be from foamy ATF.  This could be caused by low AT fluid level.((http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/62TE.html)) A whine from the transmission that sounds like a power steering pump may be from foamy ATF.  This could be caused by low AT fluid level.((http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/62TE.html))
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 +It is possible that transmission temperature can be monitored with ScanGauge using the following settings:((https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/transmission-cooling-unit.96003/post-762387))
 +
 +  * TXD: 10F1229110​
 +  * RXF: C46205913610​  
 +  * RXD: 3010​
 +  * MTH: 000100400000​
 +  * NAME: ATF​
 +
 +==== tow/haul mode ====
 +
 +Tow/Haul is off by default.  See [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/tow-haul-mode.56338/post-829461|this post]] about adding a 12v timer to automate the process of turning it on.
  
  
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 ===== solar fitment ===== ===== solar fitment =====
 [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57082|{{ https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2874/32381778274_fc2f267932_b.jpg?300|RW and VJ's 159" with 810w of solar}}]] [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57082|{{ https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2874/32381778274_fc2f267932_b.jpg?300|RW and VJ's 159" with 810w of solar}}]]
-The PM roof is quite wide at the top and larger, high-voltage residential panels can be mounted.  If large panels are fitted across the whole width taller z-bracket or spacers may be need to allow for the PM's roof curve.((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=401154&postcount=43))+The PM roof is quite wide at the top and larger, [[electrical:solar:panels#panel_voltage|higher-voltage residential/commercial panels]] can be mounted.  If large panels are fitted across the whole width taller z-bracket or spacers may be need to allow for the PM's roof curve.((http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=401154&postcount=43))
  
 The roof of the 136" PM can fit 600w (2x300w) with sufficient room for a roof vent. The roof of the 136" PM can fit 600w (2x300w) with sufficient room for a roof vent.
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 The 159" can fit about 900w (3x300w) + roof vent. The 159" can fit about 900w (3x300w) + roof vent.
  
 +Hein makes [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/solar-solar-solar.88755/page-2#post-700318|custom hardware]] for mounting panels to the Promaster roof.
 ===== roof vent fitment ===== ===== roof vent fitment =====
 The Promaster has a raised roof vent pad near the cab.  Parts of it have no ribbing to make waterproofing easier.  The Promaster has a raised roof vent pad near the cab.  Parts of it have no ribbing to make waterproofing easier. 
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 ==== roof height ==== ==== roof height ====
 {{ :rv:promastercompareroof.jpg?direct&200|}} {{ :rv:promastercompareroof.jpg?direct&200|}}
-The Promaster has only two roof heights so identication is easy.  The roofline is compared to the top of the van's cab.+The Promaster has only two roof heights so identification is easy.  The roofline is compared to the top of the van's cab.
   * the Low Roof is just above the cab   * the Low Roof is just above the cab
   * the High Roof extends beyond the cab   * the High Roof extends beyond the cab
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 ===== further reading ===== ===== further reading =====
 +  * Kip's [[https://www.youtube.com/@promastersonly1419|Promasters Only]] YT channel
   * [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/|Promaster Forum]]   * [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/|Promaster Forum]]
   * [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=85|Promasterforum Dealer / Pricing]] subforum   * [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=85|Promasterforum Dealer / Pricing]] subforum
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   * [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=121|Promasterforum RV trips]] subforum   * [[http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=121|Promasterforum RV trips]] subforum
   * [[https://www.allpar.com/forums/forums/vans.214/|Allpar van forum]]   * [[https://www.allpar.com/forums/forums/vans.214/|Allpar van forum]]
 +  * [[https://protonmail2061.autodesk360.com/g/shares/SH56a43QTfd62c1cd968323a14d3acedc102|CAD model]] of a Promaster/Ducato((https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/gkrixc/i_created_a_ram_promasterfiat_ducato_in_3d_feel/))
 +  * [[https://www.thedrive.com/news/34672/check-out-how-surprisingly-durable-this-chrysler-pentastar-v6-is-after-626000-miles|teardown after engine failure at 620k]]
 +  * unconfirmeded: [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/mechanic-says-to-run-0w30-in-the-pentastar-3-6-instead-of-0w20-as-specd-thoughts.94385/#post-745986|ex-Pentastar engineer discusses 5w-20 vs 5w-30]] 
  
  
rv/ram_promaster.1507892358.txt.gz · Last modified: 2020/10/11 19:48 (external edit)