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lifestyle:faq_solar_generator [2022/04/05 13:30] frater_secessus [pass-through charging] |
lifestyle:faq_solar_generator [2023/09/24 20:58] frater_secessus [Solar generators] |
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Words of wisdom: | Words of wisdom: | ||
- | + | **TL;DR - These things | |
- | > The self contained units are overpriced, underperforming "power for dummies" | + | |
====== Solar generators ====== | ====== Solar generators ====== | ||
[[https:// | [[https:// | ||
- | "Solar Generators" | + | "Solar Generators" |
- | * a battery | + | * A [[electrical: |
- | * USB outlet[s] | + | * USB outlet[s] and 12v outlet[s] |
- | * a pure sine wave [[electrical: | + | * An [[electrical: |
* A [[electrical: | * A [[electrical: | ||
- | These devices are packaged for convenience and are usually much more expensive than the components bought separately. | + | These devices are packaged for convenience and are usually much more expensive than the components bought separately. |
+ | |||
+ | Less expensive "solar generators" | ||
The overall proposition can be summed up by the title of a Bob Wells video, [[https:// | The overall proposition can be summed up by the title of a Bob Wells video, [[https:// | ||
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Sometimes the term [[https:// | Sometimes the term [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | ---- | ||
===== Best case scenario ===== | ===== Best case scenario ===== | ||
- | The best use of these " | + | The best use of these " |
- | * a person who camps on relatively short outings | + | * Has little technical knowledge of electricity and battery chemistries, |
- | * who can charge from shore power when away from the camper | + | * Is short on time and needs a solution very quickly |
- | * and who does not need to run devices in the camper when the owner is charging the unit elsewhere | + | * **Has //plenty// of disposable income** |
+ | * Camps on relatively short outings | ||
+ | * Has small to medium power needs, or does not need long run time. | ||
+ | * Can charge from shore power when away from the camper | ||
+ | * May need to bring their power source well outside of their vehicle for recreational or work reasons | ||
A solar generator may also be useful for people who want to move the battery between different vehicles. | A solar generator may also be useful for people who want to move the battery between different vehicles. | ||
+ | ---- | ||
+ | |||
===== Specifications ===== | ===== Specifications ===== | ||
Specs for these devices are often given in nonstandard or even misleading ways. The following discussion will use the Yeti shown above, although their product description is better than most. | Specs for these devices are often given in nonstandard or even misleading ways. The following discussion will use the Yeti shown above, although their product description is better than most. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== TLDR ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | We are most interested in | ||
+ | |||
+ | * how much capacity the bank has (typically in Watt-hours, Wh) | ||
+ | * charging limits | ||
+ | * by car adapter (typically ≤120w because of limitations of the ciggy port) | ||
+ | * by wall adapter (volts and amps, sometimes the stock wall charger makes lower power than is otherwise possible) | ||
+ | * by solar ([[electrical: | ||
+ | * DC output (typically 10A at 12v) | ||
+ | * AC output (given as Watts, the biggest AC loads you can run) | ||
==== capacity ==== | ==== capacity ==== | ||
- | |||
- | Ah are often expressed as mAh. Which is more impressive, 33Ah or 33, | + | Capacity is most often listed in Wh (watt-hours), |
+ | Nefarious marketers sometimes multiply each cell's Ah rating times the number of cells, resulting in a 3x inflation of Ah rating. | ||
- | The 33Ah **capacity** lead-acid battery in the example above is stated as 400Wh. | ||
- | Nefarious marketers sometimes multiply each cell's Ah rating times the number of cells, resulting in a 3x inflation of Ah rating. | + | === usable capacity === |
- | On the upside, they have almost no peukert effect and therefore can support heavier loads (at the expense of running time). | + | |
+ | Most people know that only about 50% of lead batt capacity should be used in order to ensure a long life. Lithium also has a recommended safety margin, 20%. This means 80% of the rated capacity can be used and still hit the manufacturer' | ||
+ | |||
+ | With 320Wh usable we could run the a theoretical 400w inverter at max load for 48minutes. | ||
- | You could run run [[electrical: | ||
==== cell chemistry ==== | ==== cell chemistry ==== | ||
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The cell chemistry is likely 3.6v Li-NMC((" | The cell chemistry is likely 3.6v Li-NMC((" | ||
- | Li-NMC are typically 3.6v cells arranged three in a row (3S) for nominal 10.8v. | + | Li-NMC are typically 3.6v cells arranged three in a row (3S) for nominal 10.8v. |
- | LiFePO4 are typically 3.2v cells arranged four in a row (4S) for nominal 12.8v and actually ~12.1v - 14.0v. | + | LiFePO4 are typically 3.2v cells arranged four in a row (4S) for nominal 12.8v and actually ~12.1v - 14.0v. |
- | [[electrical: | + | [[electrical: |
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Inverters are typically rated on their // | Inverters are typically rated on their // | ||
- | ==== solar charging limits | + | ==== solar input ==== |
+ | |||
+ | If the [[electrical: | ||
+ | |||
+ | === solar charging limits === | ||
Many smaller units have quite restrictive solar input limits. | Many smaller units have quite restrictive solar input limits. | ||
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- | **Pass-through charging** is an important feature, as it allows you to run DC/USB/AC while charging the unit. While passing-through keep an eye on the unit's temperature and discontinue one or the other if it gets too warm. | + | **Pass-through charging** is an important feature, as it allows you to run DC/USB/AC while charging the unit((some units will pass through DC but not power the inverter for AC. Check the specs and reviews carefully/ |
A unit with pass-through would maximize charging while driving. | A unit with pass-through would maximize charging while driving. | ||
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12v ciggy port -> SG | 12v ciggy port -> SG | ||
- | + | | |
- | | + | |
The situation with solar would be even worse, because it might take all day to charge from solar and the SG could not power other devices for that day. | The situation with solar would be even worse, because it might take all day to charge from solar and the SG could not power other devices for that day. | ||
==== regulated DC output ==== | ==== regulated DC output ==== | ||
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* long wire runs (as seen with portable panels set outside) result in voltage drops | * long wire runs (as seen with portable panels set outside) result in voltage drops | ||
* sunlight is limited to a certain number of hours. | * sunlight is limited to a certain number of hours. | ||
+ | * it is common for smaller units to have low **input voltage limits**, like 25v or lower. | ||
* it is common for smaller units to have low **input current limits** for DC charging (Wall adapter, car adapter, or panel). | * it is common for smaller units to have low **input current limits** for DC charging (Wall adapter, car adapter, or panel). | ||
* 100w panel on MPPT controller - 18v x 3A = **54W**((In practice it will be even lower due to [[electrical: | * 100w panel on MPPT controller - 18v x 3A = **54W**((In practice it will be even lower due to [[electrical: | ||
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Wall charging is typically fastest because the manufacturer gets total control over the adapter' | Wall charging is typically fastest because the manufacturer gets total control over the adapter' | ||
- | ====Charging | + | ====charging |
Car charging is typically slow because [[electrical: | Car charging is typically slow because [[electrical: | ||
- | It's not *efficient* in the normal sense, but it can sometimes | + | It's not *efficient* in the normal sense, but if ciggy charging is running < |
12v ciggy port -> small inverter -> AC adapter -> device | 12v ciggy port -> small inverter -> AC adapter -> device | ||
Example: | Example: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== charging from isolator ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | If >120w charging is required while mobile, one solution might be to install an isolator as one would when charging an auxilliary battery. | ||
+ | |||
+ | [[electrical: | ||
+ | |||
+ | As with the ciggy lighter setup above, it's not particularly efficient but while driving the alternator has power to waste. | ||
+ | |||
+ | | ||
+ | | ||
==== internal AGM batteries ==== | ==== internal AGM batteries ==== | ||
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> The X-Boost mode is not applicable for all electrical devices. Some devices with a rated power of 600W-1200W that have strict voltage requirements are still not compatible. Please conduct a full test to confirm before usage, so it will not to affect your work. It is recommended to use electrical equipment with heating elements and with a rated power between 600-1200W, such as hair dryers, electric kettles, coffee | > The X-Boost mode is not applicable for all electrical devices. Some devices with a rated power of 600W-1200W that have strict voltage requirements are still not compatible. Please conduct a full test to confirm before usage, so it will not to affect your work. It is recommended to use electrical equipment with heating elements and with a rated power between 600-1200W, such as hair dryers, electric kettles, coffee | ||
- | Note that the loads mentioned are all resistance loads (heating coils). | + | Note that the loads mentioned |
+ | |||
+ | Heads up: there are at least two issues that may affect the Delta Pro: [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== DIY solar generator ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | [[https:// | ||
+ | People who want portability or an all-in-one solution can build their own solar generator out of a [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | In this approach the battery, inverter, solar charge controller, and DC power ports are installed in or on the carrier. | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Will Prowse [[https:// | ||
===== quirks ===== | ===== quirks ===== | ||