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--- electrical:12v:self-jumpstarting [2024/03/20 19:47]
frater_secessus [waking lithium batteries]
+++ electrical:12v:self-jumpstarting [2024/11/21 00:48] (current)
frater_secessus [DC-DC chargers]
@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 Self-jumpstarting means jumpstarting one's own vehicle without the use of another vehicle.  It's done by [[electrical:12v:alternator|combining]] house and chassis batteries by one of several methods discussed below.
-Note:  regardless of specific method used, it will be gentlest on the system to **combine the batteries and wait a few minutes for the starter battery to come up** instead of immediately attempting to start. This will minimize the amount of current flowing from house bank to vehicle chassis. This may be especially important with Li chemistries that have BMS protections.
+Note:  regardless of specific method used, it will be gentlest on the system to **combine the batteries and wait a few minutes for the starter battery to come up** instead of immediately attempting to start. This will minimize((or eliminate, if the connection is broken prior to starting)) the amount of current flowing from house bank to vehicle chassis. This may be especially important with Li chemistries that have BMS protections.
 ===== jumping from the house bank =====
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 ==== DC-DC chargers ====
-As with diode-based isolators, DC-DC chargers typically cannot pass power back from the battery bank to the vehicle; there are exceptions.  Read below for workarounds and different approaches.
+As with diode-based isolators, DC-DC chargers typically cannot pass power back from the battery bank to the vehicle.  Read below for workarounds and different approaches.
+Exceptions:
+  * the [[https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/wakespeed-48v-12v-bi-directional-dc-dc-converter/|BattleBorn/Wakespeed 48v/12v Bi-Directional DC-DC  charger]] can send 50% of it's rated power to the starter battery.
+  * the [[https://amzn.to/40WMp2L|Bluetti 800w alternator charger]] (DC-DC) has a starter battery maintenance function.
@@ Line 43: / Line 49: @@
 Note the Smartpass does this when added to the CTEK D250-series chargers.
-===== maintaining starter batteries =====
-Some [[electrical:12v:b2b#examples_-_combo_with_solar_charge_controller|combo DC-DC chargers]] contain logic to maintain the starter battery when solar power is present.
-Some standalone solar charge controllers like the [[https://amzn.to/2PPTD2L|Morningstar SunSaver Duo]] can, for example,  charge the start battery with 10% of solar harvest and the house battery with 90% using different charging profiles.  As with DC-DC above, it's not self-jumpstarting but can help prevent the dead starter battery.
-[[electrical:12v:alternator#voltage-sensing_relays|dVSR isolators]] (including [[electrical:12v:alternator#lithium-specific_vsr|the Li-BIM]]) automatically connect the banks when the voltage on either side reaches defined setpoints.
-Some Victron Multiplus models have a 4A starter battery maintenance feature.
-There are dedicated maintainers:
-  * Some RVs were equipped with original Trik-L-Start or lithium-compatible Amp-L-Start modules by LSL Products, which is [[http://www.lslproducts.net/|apparently out of business]].
-  * The [[https://amzn.to/47HMMyn|Xantrex echo charge]] maintains the chassis battery at up to 15A.
-Experimental:  RV With Tito has [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exQSsTiclOo|uses a PWM solar charge controller to maintain starter battery from the house bank]].
-Also see [[electrical:12v:alternator#gotchas|the subarticle on combiner gotchas]].
-==== starter battery chargers alongside DC-DC chargers ====
-If a DC-DC is present and relatively weak shore power charging is applied to the starter battery there are circumstances where the DC-DC can cycle on-off constantly.  Let's consider a 20A DC-DC and a 10A starter battery maintainer.
-  - starter battery at 12.7v before charging applied
-  - starter battery voltage rises from 10A charging
-  - DC-DC sees >13.4v and [[electrical:12v:b2b#sizing|starts pulling ~22A]] to charge house battery at 20A
-  - starter battery drops to 12.6v and DC-DC charger stops
-   - repeat forever
-To avoid this scenario either:
-  * ensure the DC-DC rating is smaller than the starter battery rating; or
-  * apply the shore power charging to the house bank side instead((for DC-DC models with starter battery maintenance, see above))
-===== waking lithium batteries =====
-Lithium banks can go dormant at low voltages in order to protect themselves:
-  - the BMS turns off the DISCHARGE channel
-  - which means smart chargers don't see battery voltage
-  - and think there's a problem so they won't start
-What we need is a //dumb// voltage source to get the party restarted.  The starter battery will do nicely.
-  * Rigs with IGN-triggered relays can briefly turn the key to ACC then back off.((don't leave it on ACC long or the dead Li will suck power from the starter battery.  Either turn ACC off again or actually start the vehicle.))
-  * Rigs with voltage-sensing relays will have to actually start the engine to trigger the VSR and wake the lithium bank.
@@ Line 108: / Line 57: @@
 'Dwellers may want to pick a jump pack that has 12v or USB outlets so it can have other uses.
+===== maintaining starter batteries =====
+[this section [[electrical:12v:maintaining_starter_battery|has been moved]]]

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