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opinion:frater_secessus:prebuilt_van [2024/12/10 21:24]
frater_secessus [I bought a pre-built van. How does the power system work?] |
opinion:frater_secessus:prebuilt_van [2025/04/28 22:10] (current)
frater_secessus [figuring out what you have] |
| ===== TL;DR ===== | ===== TL;DR ===== |
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| * **observation** is a major part of both figuring out a system and of troubleshooting. Look. Notice. Pay attention. | * **observation** is a major part of both figuring out a system and of troubleshooting. Look. Notice. Pay attention. Document. |
| | * look up the manual or specs for for every component you find |
| * the job of the power system is to accept charge from [[electrical:12v:power_mix|one or more sources]], store that energy, and use it for [[electrical:12v:loads|loads]] you want to run. On average **charging must be ≥ discharging**((the "average" part is provided by bank capacity)) or you will [[opinion:frater_secessus:running_out_of_power|run out of power]]. | * the job of the power system is to accept charge from [[electrical:12v:power_mix|one or more sources]], store that energy, and use it for [[electrical:12v:loads|loads]] you want to run. On average **charging must be ≥ discharging**((the "average" part is provided by bank capacity)) or you will [[opinion:frater_secessus:running_out_of_power|run out of power]]. |
| * a system can be working-as-designed and still not do what you want or meeting your needs | * a system can be working-as-designed and still not do what you want or meeting your needs |
| ===== figuring out what you have ===== | ===== figuring out what you have ===== |
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| The first step is figuring out what you have, both for your understanding and so others might be able to help you. Knowing what you have helps you [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#failure_to_ask_good_questions|ask productive questions]]. | The first step is figuring out what you have, both for your understanding and so others might be able to help you. Knowing what you have helps you [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#failure_to_ask_good_questions|ask productive questions]]. Remember, the people you are asking for help cannot see inside your van. You are their eyes and ears. |
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| Caveat: If someone upgraded/changed the vehicle after purchase the VIN will not know about that.... | Caveat: If someone upgraded/changed the vehicle after purchase the VIN will not know about that.... |
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| You can find a free lookup tool by searching ''[brand] VIN lookup``. [[https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=chevy+vin+lookup&ia=web|Example using Chevy]] | You can find a free lookup tool by searching ''[brand] VIN lookup''. [[https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=chevy+vin+lookup&ia=web|Example using Chevy]] |
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| The label on the backside of the panel will show [[electrical:solar:panels#specifications|the specs]] you'll need to know and share. If there is no back label or you cannot access it you will need to consult the manufacturer's website or manual. | The label on the backside of the panel will show [[electrical:solar:panels#specifications|the specs]] you'll need to know and share. |
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| | If there is no back label or you cannot access it((you might be able to slip an inspection mirror or phone under the panel to read the backlabel)) you will need to consult the manufacturer's website or manual. |
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| **Pro tip**: if you are mounting new panels take a pic of the label //before// mounting them where you can't see it. | **Pro tip**: if you are mounting new panels take a pic of the label //before// mounting them where you can't see it. |
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| ==== chargers ==== | ==== charging and chargers ==== |
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| We recharge our battery banks almost every day, so there is probably at least one charger present. All chargers have settings of some kind: battery type, charging voltages, etc. Look at your manual to see what the defaults are, and cycle through any displays/apps to see if the configuration differs from those defaults. | We recharge our battery banks almost every day, so there is probably at least one charger present. All chargers have settings of some kind: battery type, charging voltages, etc. Look at your manual to see what the defaults are, and cycle through any displays/apps to see if the configuration differs from those defaults. |
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| | When charging the voltage will tend to rise and when discharging it will tend to fall. The amount of this rise or fall is related to charge/discharge current and other factors in the setup. Watch for patterns rather than specific numbers. For example, if bank voltage rises when you start then engine then alternator charging is likely in play. If bank voltage falls when a dark cloud obscures the sun then solar charging decreased (or stopped) for that reason. |
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| === solar charge controllers === | === solar charge controllers === |
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| The [[electrical:solar:charge_controller|solar charge controller]] will have wires coming into it from the solar panels, assuming they are permanently mounted. The other set of wires goes out to the battery bank. | The [[electrical:solar:charge_controller|solar charge controller]] ("SCC", "controller") will have wires coming into it from the solar panels and out of it to the battery bank. There may also be [[electrical:solar:charge_controller#using_load_output|LOAD terminals]] but these are rarely used in van setups. |
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| | Common controller brands are Victron, Renogy, EpEver. Morningstar and Blue Sky were premium controllers that are not as common in vans nowadays. There are also many rebranded inexpensive-but-functional controllers from SRNE, BougeRV, Eco-Worthy, etc. The two main [[electrical:solar:charge_controller#using_load_output|types of controller]] are PWM and MPPT; they are different ways of getting power from the panels into your battery bank. As long as your solar is working the type of controller is not particularly important at this stage. |
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| Common brands are Victron, Renogy, EpEver. Morningstar and Blue Sky were premium controllers that are not as common in vans nowadays. There are also many rebranded inexpensive-but-functional controllers from SRNE, BougeRV, Eco-Worthy, etc. | |
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| The lowest end of the market is flooded with [[electrical:solar:charge_controller#single-stage_chargers|very cheap controllers]] (often incorrectly called "MPPT") in the $10-$20 range. These can work if you understand their limitations. | The lowest end of the market is flooded with [[electrical:solar:charge_controller#single-stage_chargers|very cheap controllers]] (often incorrectly called "MPPT") in the $10-$20 range. These can work if you understand their limitations. |
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| - [[electrical:12v:alternator#combiners|combiners]], simple and inexpensive. Includes switches, relays, voltage sensing ("smart") relays, usually mounted near the starter battery.((possibly under the hood of the vehicle)) This type of device is basically a pass-through for whatever the battery bank wants / the alternator can give. Often no name on the device at all, although VSR do sometimes carry labels like Stinger, Smart, Battery Doctor, etc. | - [[electrical:12v:alternator#combiners|combiners]], simple and inexpensive. Includes switches, relays, voltage sensing ("smart") relays, usually mounted near the starter battery.((possibly under the hood of the vehicle)) This type of device is basically a pass-through for whatever the battery bank wants / the alternator can give. Often no name on the device at all, although VSR do sometimes carry labels like Stinger, Smart, Battery Doctor, etc. |
| - [[electrical:12v:b2b|DC-DC chargers]], more complex and costly chargers that can regulate current and/or voltage. Usually mounted quite close to the battery bank. Common brands include Victron Orion, Sterling, Renogy, etc. | - [[electrical:12v:b2b|DC-DC chargers]], more complex and costly chargers that can regulate current and/or voltage. Usually mounted quite close to the battery bank. Common brands include Victron Orion, Sterling, Renogy, etc. Since 2024 less expensive versions have come to market from China, including Li-Time, Etaker, etc. These tend to have less extensive documenation. |
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| === combination DC-DC + solar charging === | === combination DC-DC + solar charging === |
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| ==== shore power charging ==== | === shore power charging === |
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| This is the least common form of charging since few vanfolk have the luxury of access to [[electrical:shore_power|grid ("shore"). Having steady access to shore power is like winning the vandweller lottery because you can do almost anything you want, power-wise. | This is the least common form of charging since few vanfolk have the luxury of access to [[electrical:shore_power|grid ("shore") power]]. Having steady access to shore power is like winning the vandweller lottery because you can do almost anything you want, power-wise. |
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| When present, shore power chargers might be [[electrical:converter|RV-style converters]] from Iota, PowerMax, Progressive, WFCO. | When present, shore power chargers might be [[electrical:converter|RV-style converters]] from Iota, PowerMax, Progressive, WFCO. Rigs that plan on making use of shore power more often might have RV-style [[electrical:inverter#inverter_chargers|inverter-chargers]] like the Victron Multiplus line. |
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| Sometimes people use shore power chargers that might not be made for vans/rvs: Noco, Schumacher, etc. | Sometimes people use general purpose battery chargers that might not be made for vans/rvs: Noco, Schumacher, etc. |
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| | ==== inverters ==== |
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| | [[electrical:inverter|Inverters]] are used if/when you need to run 120vac((in the US)) loads from 12vdc((typically)) battery banks. |
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| | They will typically have a wattage rating labeled on them. With more reputable manufacturers this will be the continuous duty rating. With less-scrupulous manufacturers this might be the peak/surge output rating. |
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| | Unless the inverter says ''pure sine wave'' or ''PSW'' on it there is a reasonable chance it is Modified Square((or Sine)) Wave. See link above. |
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| ===== troubleshooting problems ===== | |
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| if it ever worked before and doesn't work now then at least one of these is probably true; | ==== wiring and fusing ==== |
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| * an electrical connection is compromised: wiring terminal loose, fuse blown / breaker tripped | While poking about taking stock of the components, also notice the wiring and fusing. |
| * something was inadvertently turned off by physical switch or app setting | |
| * something has failed or worn out((like batteries)) | |
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| If it's never worked then perhaps | |
| * something is installed but not hooked up or turned on (see above) | |
| * it wasn't installed | |
| * it failed before you bought it and the seller didn't know or didn't say | |
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| It's also possible that it's working fine but you don't know it. Example: "[[electrical:solar:status#setups_with_no_float|my charger isn't charging my lithium batteries]] even though they are not at 100%". | It can be difficult to tell the construction and gauge of wiring by externals. If you are lucky that information might be printed on the insulation of the wiring itself. This kind of info might be printed only on one side maybe only every few inches or feet so it might be hidden at first. Keep tracing and looking. |
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| ==== get a handle on the symptoms ==== | Fuses and breakers are usually labeled with their current limit |
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| Pay attention to what is happening so you can describe it clearly and accurately to people who want to help //but who cannot see your van.// | [[https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/Circuit_Protection/1437/Part_1%3A_Choosing_the_Correct_Wire_Size_for_a_DC_Circuit|This Blue Sea article]] describes appropriate wire gauge for a given current and circuit length. |
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| * useful information: | |
| * "My inverter gives a E3 error and stops working when the battery monitor says voltage is below 11v" | |
| * My inverter worked as expected until yesterday | |
| * my inverter has never worked | |
| * ok information: "my inverter doesn't work when voltage is 11v" | |
| * useless: "my inverter doesn't work" | |
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| When describing charging/noncharging problems, please report voltage and current changes you observe when any charging sources are added. "My battery monitor shows 12.4v and does not change when I start the engine." | ===== upgrades ===== |
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| | You may have to make some upgrades to meet the demands of your particular use case. A rational approach might be: |
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| | - understand your use case, including [[electrical:12v:dailypowerrequirements|daily requirements]] in Watt-Hours or Amp-Hours and [[opinion:frater_secessus:run_this_load|load requirements]] in Watts or Amps. |
| | - understand what the existing system can do (see above) |
| | - find the bottlenecks and open them up so it //can// meet your needs |
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| | An irrational-but-common approach would be to [[opinion:frater_secessus:beginner_mistakes#buying_random_stuff|buy stuff at random]] based on impulse, marketing, or "good deals". |
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| | ===== troubleshooting problems ===== |
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| | There is a famous saying that |
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| | > clearly stating the problem is 90% of the solution |
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| | ...so we are back to //observation// again. Once you can clearly state the nature of the problem continue to [[troubleshooting:electrical|this overview of troubleshooting]]. |
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| - adjust your cut/paste parts document anytime you add or change a component | - adjust your cut/paste parts document anytime you add or change a component |
| - observe the system in normal operation so you know how it should act when everything works | - observe the system in normal operation so you can tell when it's //not// acting normally |
