Differences

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--- electrical:12v:b2b [2024/01/29 18:33]
frater_secessus [Sterling]
+++ electrical:12v:b2b [2024/04/12 21:52] (current)
frater_secessus [Kisae]
@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 The DC-DC should be big enough to meet your charging targets given the amount of driving you do and the
 contributions of [[electrical:12v:alt_and_solar|other forms of charging]]. It should be small enough that the [[electrical:12v:alternator_details#current|alternator can provide the power continuously]].((Some DC-DC can be derated in the settings in 5A or 10A increments.  IOW, you might run your 50A DC-DC at 35A after observing how the system operates.))  **An oversized DC-DC charger cannot protect the alternator**.
+==== harvest ====
+Ah = Amps x hours.  If your DC-DC charges at 20A and you drive for 2.5 hours it can replace 50Ah (20A x 2.5 hours).
 Note that [[opinion:frater_secessus:charging_faster|bigger is not always better]];  different battery chemistries and capacities accept current at different rates.  Buying more charging capacity than the battery wants((or should have for its own good, see Li below)) is a waste of money. Buying more charging capacity than your alternator can deliver constantly can overheat/damage the alternator.
@@ Line 171: / Line 175: @@
   * They estimate this will be ~500w of actual input wattage((12v panels)), with [[electrical:solar:overpaneling|overpaneling]] allowed to 600w.
   * supports termination of Absorption by tail current(("L” (Low) parameter"))
+The **lithium charging logic** is charge-and-stop:
+  - Bulk charge up to to the user-defined Absorption voltage at the user-defined current level (5A increments)
+  - hold Absorption voltage until charge current((output really, since it doesn't know what's a load and what's actual charge acceptance)) falls to the user-defined amount of trailing amps.
+  - stop charging
+  - until bank voltage falls to <13.3v
+  - then re-Bulk
@@ Line 177: / Line 189: @@
   * [[https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf|manual]]
   * An [[https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f20/installing-a-kisae-dmt-1250-dc-to-dc-charger-24264.html|extensive write-up]]
+  * [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/kisae-dmt1250-partial-disassembly-and-remote-disconnect-addition.15454/|teardown]] for modification
   * [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/has-anyone-used-the-kisae-dmt1250-abso-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger-with-mppt.4402/post-234532|additional solar input information]] from a support email
   * [[https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/kisae-dmt1250-dmt1230-low-temp-cut-off-and-couple-of-advanced-wiring-options.97444/|adding low-temperature charging cutoff]] via E07
@@ Line 191: / Line 204: @@
 === starter battery maintenance behavior ===
-The Kisae does not appear to maintain the starter battery.
+The Kisae does not maintain the starter battery.  However, the manual gives instructions on feeding power to the starter battery when that battery's  voltage is too low:
+>> For DMT1230, 1250 using CH 2 (Solar Array/Panel): Turn unit off. Use a proper jumper to temporary connected CH2 “+” to Ch 1 “+”. Remove the jumper when CH 1 is above the unit start up voltage (8Vdc) and restart the unit.
 === related ===
 This unit also seems to be sold under the Ring and Merlin brands.
+==== LiTime ====
+{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71UNjnxThrL._AC_UL320_.jpg?125}}
+LiTime makes [[https://amzn.to/3xHGjq5|a 40A DC-DC/ MPPT combo]] that looks identical to the Redodo below. Specs appear to be the same:
+  * Pv input 13.0v - 26v, max 600w
+  * Alternator Input Voltage 11.3-24VDC, max 600w
+  * Smart Alternator Input Voltage 12-24VDC , max 600w
+=== solar+alternator behavior ===
+According to the Amazon listing:
+> The DC-DC charger will choose the DC input automatically rather than charging the service battery with both the solar and DC inputs
+=== starter battery maintenance behavior ===
+> When the starting battery voltage is between 3-12V and the living battery voltage is greater than 12.5V, press and hold "REVERSE CHARGE" for 3 seconds to start reverse charging. It is recommended to start the battery when the voltage is greater than 13V and exit reverse charging when the charging current is less than 10A or the voltage of the domestic battery is less than 11V.
+==== Redodo ====
+{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71PVPwKPJxL._AC_UL320_.jpg?100}}
+Redodo makes [[https://amzn.to/3JhGtqN|a 40A combo DC-DC/MPPT]]:
+  * Pv input 13.0v - 26v, max 600w
+  * Alternator Input Voltage 	11.3-24VDC, max 600w
+  * Smart Alternator Input Voltage 	12-24VDC , max 600w
+No manual located as of this writing.
+=== solar+alternator behavior ===
+unknown
+=== starter battery maintenance behavior ===
+Amazon listing claims "supports reverse charging the starter battery through the service battery".  A seller answer later says:
+> When the starter battery voltage is between 3 to 12V and the service battery voltage is >12.5V, press and hold the “Reverse Charging” for 3 seconds to initiate reverse charging. It’s recommended to exit reverse charging when the starter battery voltage >13V and charging current <10A, or when the service battery voltage <11V.
 ==== SRNE ====
@@ Line 304: / Line 377: @@
 {{ https://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/user/products/large/SP-BBS1230.jpg?120}}
-The Sterling BBS1230 Pro Batt Ultra is a 30A boost/buck 30A charger. The solar input max is 31V and 16A. Alternator input voltage is 11v-20v and 30A.  Both the solar and b2b charging can be turned off separately.
+The Sterling BBS1230 Pro Batt Ultra is a 30A boost/buck 30A charger. The solar input max is 31V and 16A with a 350w output maximum.  Alternator input voltage is 11v-20v and 30A.
+The solar and b2b charging can be turned off separately.
@@ Line 353: / Line 428: @@
 Wagan sells [[https://amzn.to/3BXLtwW|25A]] and [[https://amzn.to/3LWBi04|40A]] DC-DC chargers with MPPT inputs.   The 32v max input and other specs suggest internals may be similar to Redarc units (see above).
+Note:  the LiFePO4 profiles charges to 14.5v and floats at 13.6v.  The STD and GEL profiles have slightly lower voltages and may be worth considering.
+[[https://www.donrowe.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/dc_to_dc_chargers_owners_guide.pdf|manual]] (pdf)
+=== solar+alternator behavior ===
+The default behavior appears to be:
+  - charge by solar if sufficient to meet needs
+  - if solar is insufficient and engine is running switch to alternator-only
+>>  if solar input power is strong enough. When solar input cannot provide enough energy to charge the battery, the Battery Charger will draw power from the alternator.
+There is a solar priority mode:
+>> Press the Solar Priority button to prioritize input from the solar panel over charging from the alternator... As long as the solar panels produce more than 25W (for 7410) or 50W (for 7411) of power, the unit will select charging by solar. If the auxiliary battery decreases below a certain level, the unit will charge by alternator regardless of solar input.
+This mode appears to be:
+  - charge by solar if solar harvest is ≥25w/50w even if the vehicle is running
+  - if solar harvest drops below 25w/50w switch to alternator
+>>
 ==== Atem Power ====
@@ Line 410: / Line 508: @@
+==== Adventure King ====
+{{ https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/G9QAAOSw7T5kkmoj/s-l1600.jpg?100}}
+AK makes [[https://nz.adventurekings.com/lighting-power/dc-to-dc-chargers/kings-25a-dcdc-charger.html|a 25A combo unit]] with a
+  * 9v-25v PV input limit.((AKEP-DC25A_01 - 25A DC-DC/MPPT Charger))
+  * alternator input 11.9v-25V.  Appears to connect at 12.1v (IGN) or 13.8v (voltage sensing)
+  * manual says for lead batts only, but the "Wet Lead Acid/GEL" profile charges at 14.2v and floats at 13.3V.  Temp compensation seems to be mandatory((encase it in styrofoam?))
+[[https://marketing.4wdsupacentre.com.au/%20manuals/191024%2012V%20DC-DC%20Battery%20Charger%20User%20Manual_V1.6.pdf|manual]]
+=== solar+alternator behavior ===
+no information available
+=== starter battery maintenance behavior ===
+no information available
 ==== CTEK D250 series ====
@@ Line 478: / Line 596: @@
-DC-DC chargers in 20A, 40A, and 60A output.  Switched on by ignition circuit on the D+ port, low output mode (12.5% of rated current) triggered by 12v on a dedicated terminal. ((https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf)) DIP switches for battery type, Vabs and Vfloat. [[https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf|manual]] (pdf) [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/renogy-dcc1212-dc-dc-charger-teardown.10141/|teardown]]  Note:  some versions of the manual [[https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/okfkuk/my_batteries_inverter_and_dcdc_charger_came_in_i/h5899bw/|may have a typo]].
+DC-DC chargers in 20A, 40A, and 60A output.  Switched on by ignition circuit on the D+ port, low output mode (50% of rated current) triggered by 12v on a dedicated terminal. ((https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf)) DIP switches for battery type, Vabs and Vfloat. [[https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1212-20-BC/DCC1212-204060-Manual.pdf|manual]] (pdf) [[https://diysolarforum.com/threads/renogy-dcc1212-dc-dc-charger-teardown.10141/|teardown]]  Note:  some versions of the manual [[https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/okfkuk/my_batteries_inverter_and_dcdc_charger_came_in_i/h5899bw/|may have a typo]].
 These chargers appear to have a 3 hour absorption duration.  This is usually insufficient for lead chemistries, but still longer than the 2 hour duration of the DCC series above.  From the manual:
@@ Line 509: / Line 627: @@
 [[https://amzn.to/3entDrt|{{ https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51FNDAIhJeS._AC_UY218_.jpg?125}}]]
-Victron makes several DC-DC chargers, some of which are configurable by bluetooth.  12v examples:
+Victron makes several DC-DC chargers, some of which are configurable by bluetooth ("Smart" units).
+=== Orion-Tr ===
+v examples:
   * Orion-Tr 12|12-20 20A
-  * [[https://amzn.to/3entDrt| Orion-Tr 12|12-30]] 30A
+  * [[https://amzn.to/3entDrt| Orion-Tr 12|12-30]] 30A (most popular model)
 See information on isolated v. non-isolated chargers [[#isolated_chargers|above]].
@@ Line 520: / Line 644: @@
 Be aware [[https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/dc-dc-charger-mystery-267242-2.html#post3663812|the physical jumpers may have a specific orientation]].
+Orions tend to run hot((and therefore derate)) so mount in an area with sufficient ventilation.
+[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICYTJhx2AsI|This YT video]] covers Orion configuration in considerable detail.
+=== OrionXS ===
+Differences from the -Tr:
+  * 50A
+  * all models have BT
+  * non-isolated only
+  * adds support for "VE.Smart" networking to receive voltage,  temperature and current information from [[https://amzn.to/3TMRYga|BMV]]  or [[https://amzn.to/498FnIr|SmartShunt]] (voltage and temp only from a [[https://amzn.to/4aoACf1|Smart BatterySense]] since it has no shunt).
+  * supports low-temp charging disconnect as sensed by one of the above sensors
+  * 4awg terminals
+[[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Orion-XS-12-12-50A-DC-DC-battery-charger-EN.pdf| data sheet]] (pdf)
 ==== Bogart ====

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