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electrical:12v:b2b

Battery to battery chargers

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com_images_i_3131jbgz9ll._ac_us218_.jpg A b2b (or dc-dc) charger is a type of isolator that converts alternator voltage to specific voltage setpoints instead of just passing it through as a relay might.

Because of their electronic nature they are limited to a rated amount of current1) which can protect your alternator from damage. This can be especially important with Lithium and AGM batteries that can demand huge loads from the alternator when discharged.2)

limitations

Charger throughput is generally limited to 20-30A since higher rates would dictate $$$ internal components, whereas plain isolator smight pass as much current as the alternator, battery, and wiring could handle. This isn't as big a limitation as it might seem since lead-acid current acceptance drops substantially throughout Absorption.
Untested theory: b2b chargers might work well beside normal isolators; this is essentially the $$$ CTEK SmartPass setup described below.

In addition, even DC-DC chargers can fail to charge lead batteries fully. Lead-acid batteries require two things to get fully charged:

  1. a high enough Absorption voltage (Vabs) - DC-DC chargers handle this nicely.
  2. enough time at that voltage for the battery to stop accepting much current.3) If you aren't driving for (say) 5 hours then the charger can't charge for 5 hours to meet the battery's needs. 4) This is where a bit of solar helps with the long-duration duties.

DC-DC chargers are often triggered by the IGN circuit, but voltage sensing can be added to that circuit. Others are triggered by chassis-side voltage alone.

Dual-input (alternator + solar) units make charging source decisions that are sometimes quirky. See below.

sizing

DC-DC chargers come in different ratings (10A, 40A, 60A, etc) which increase significantly in price as the rating increases.

Bigger is not always better, since battery types accept current at different rates and buying more charging capacity than the battery wants5) is a waste. Assuming a 100Ah battery:

  • Flooded lead-acid accepts a maximum of about C/5, or 20A and requires a minimum of C/10 (10A). In this case, 10-20A of charging capacity would be appropriate. Less than 10A would be insufficient for battery health and more than 20A would be wasted expense.
  • AGM lead-acid accepts a max of about C/3, or 33A per 100A of battery capacity, and requires a minimum of C/5 (20A). In this case, 20-33A of charging capacity would be appropriate. Less than 20A would be insufficient for battery health and more than 33A would be wasted expense.
  • Lithium has very low internal resistance, and may be able to slurp up all the alternator has to give. However, for the following reasons an appropriate charging capacity for lithium would be as small as possible while still meeting your power needs:
    • added expense
    • lithium does not care about partial states of charge
    • lithium tends to last longest with gentler charging/discharging
    • the alternator will be happier with lighter loading

isolated chargers

Isolated DC-DC chargers have negative terminals output side (battery bank) “galvanically isolated” from the input side (alternator). It is not needed for most use cases:

Generally speaking, one only needs to isolate the negatives when the installation does not share a common negative return path, such as may be the case on many fiberglass boats that don't have a chassis and may not have a common grounding bus to which all their battery banks connect. – Justin Cook6)

But note that a trailer does not always have common grounding:

Galvanically isolated is a nice thing to have, especially if you are charging house batteries in a trailer from the tow vehicle engine. The issue relates to how the house battery is grounded to chassis ground when the tow vehicle is disconnected. All in one RVs and vans don't have this issue (probably) so I would not expect them to need galvanic isolation. (emphasis added) – HaldorEE7)

examples - with MPPT

Combining the solar charge controller and DC-DC charger in one unit can have benefits in cleaner/simpler installation, starter battery maintenance from solar, and perhaps cost over separate components. The downsides are less configurabilty8), single points of failure, and limited options on solar input.

Combo units typically have much lower maximum panel input voltages (as low as 23v) than a standalone charge controller would (60v - 150v). This limits the solar configuration in a few ways:

  • serial panel arrangements are effectively ruled out
  • higher-voltage panels (nominal 20v, 24v) are effectively ruled out
  • even nominal 12v panels with high Voc may be problematic. Poly panels, with their typically-lower Vmp/Voc, may be especially useful with combo units.

CTEK D250 series

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com_images_i_3131jbgz9ll._ac_us218_.jpg The most common b2b charger with 'dwellers is the D250 series, all of which are 20A smart chargers with integrated MPPT:

  • D250 (pre-2018, discontinued) - the original, Vabs == 14.4v, Vfloat == 13.6v.
  • CTEK D250SA, a 20A solar/alt controller. Vabs selectable 14.4v and 14.7v. Vfloat 13.6v. Added support for smart alternators.
  • D250SE which has 14.2 Vabs and 13.3 Vfloat for lithium settings.

House and starter batteries are combined when the starter battery holds >13.1v for 5 seconds.9) The batteries are isolated when the starter battery is “<12.8V, for 10 sec… or service battery voltage > starter battery voltage”.

The SmartPass accessory adds 80A-120A (see below) of alternator-voltage charging to the D250's output when Vbatt is low enough that the alternator can still charge it directly. This combined charging10) will happen in the first half of Bulk mode. As house battery voltage rises to normal alternator voltage the smartpass can no longer contribute. At that point the 20A D250SA continues voltage-boosted charging to Absorption voltage.11)

  • Smartpass 80 - original model. 80A + 20A = 100A.
  • Smartpass 120. 120A + 20A = 140A.
  • SmartPass 120S as above, but with support for smart alternators.

Note: the CTEK D250SA12) panel voltage (Vpanel) maximum is 23v.13) There are user reports that the unit is repairable after overvoltage or polarity damage.14),15)

The MPPT charger will charge the house battery at up to 20A. CTEK specifies 50-300W of panel, though the 23v Vmax limits the unit to [electrical:solar:panels#panel_voltage|nominal 12v panels]. Note: polycrystalline panels may be more useful here, as their Voc should be a bit lower than mono.

The D250-series trickle charges the starter battery from a solar panel at intervals of 3 seconds if the service battery is fully charged.16)

solar+alternator behavior

The 250-series will charge simultaneously from solar and alternator up to the 20A output limit. No details are given in the manual.

Renogy

m.media-amazon.com_images_i_41b_gctmbys._ac_uy218_.jpg

Note: a 30A combo model is also available

solar+alternator behavior

This device's behavior regarding solar+alternator charging is widely misunderstood.

The 50A dual-input charger prefers to charge by solar if possible, up to 50A. If it cannot meet charging demands alone and the engine is running it will will charge up to 25A by solar and 25A by alternator:

Consider this snippet from the manual; img.mousetrap.net_misc_renogy2525.jpg

charging examples

Using the above information and a theoretical scenario where we have 15A18) of solar charging available during the daytime, an alternator capable of delivering 50A, and a bank able to accept 50A of charging:

  • driving at night: 50A alternator + 0A solar = 50A total charging
  • parked in daytime: 0A alternator + 15A solar = 15A total charging
  • driving in daytime: 25A alternator + 15A solar = 40A total charging

Behavior is the same for the 30A model (pdf) except 15A + 15A vs 25A + 25A above.

Kisae

m.media-amazon.com_images_i_81hke9pigbl._ac_ul320_.jpg Kisae makes a DMT1230 DC-DC charger 30A charger with 45v MPPT input. They also make a 50A model (DMT1250), which charges up to 50A by alternator. Some sources give 50v as max input; check the current manual for your device. Both models list specifiy 500w of panel with up to 20% overpaneling (600w). The Kisae has a minimum solar input voltage of 14.5v.

Customer support is generally regarded as excellent.

An extensive write-up.

solar+alternator behavior

When the alternator input terminals detect at least 13.2v the charger will be switched to alternator charging.19)

Redarc

Redarc “dual input” DC-DC chargers have integrated MPPT controllers. They appear to do both buck and boost conversion as solar input voltage is 9v-32v.20)

m.media-amazon.com_images_i_71cqs887t8l._ac_ul320_.jpg

solar+alternator behavior

The unit will always take as much power from the unregulated Solar input as it can before supplementing that power, up to the maximum rated output, from Vehicle power input21),22)

examples - standalone

Sterling

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com_images_i_41ic_8sivjl._ac_us218_.jpg The Sterling Pro Batt Ultra series is alternator-charging only, but can be configured to exact setpoints. The BB1260-12 is a 30A example and costs about $50 more than the D250S above.

Renogy

relays images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com_images_i_51hu4-7nxol._ac_ul160_sr160_160_.jpg

  • DC1212 series DC-DC isolators in 20-4023) output. Switched on by ignition circuit on the D+ port.24) DIP switches for battery type, Vabs and Vfloat. manual (pdf) teardown
  • DCC-series of voltage sensing b2b chargers in 20A, 40A versions, and 60A versions.

Redarc

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com_images_i_417f858gcdl._ac_us218_.jpg Redarc makes a 25A b2b charge with MPPT similar to the CTEK.

Ring Automotive

Ring makes a 30A DC-DC charger with 50v max input MPPT. (manual)

Note: the Ring appears very similar to the Kisae.

FlexCharge

m.media-amazon.com_images_i_71jvlo0pucl._ac_uy218_.jpg The FlexCharge NC25a-12 is a 25A charger exceptional efficiency25), the ability to dump loads, and a proprietary charging algorithm.

Specs show a max 140vdc input voltage.

Victron

m.media-amazon.com_images_i_51fndaihjes._ac_uy218_.jpg

Victron makes several DC-DC chargers, some of which are configurable by bluetooth. 12v examples:

See information on isolated v. non-isolated chargers above.

Bogart

Bogart's SC-2030 can work as a DC-DC charger as well as a PWM charge controller.

gotchas

Observe voltage input maximums on units with built-in solar charge controllers.

Voltage-sensing units26) can misbehave when an undersized starter battery charger/maintainer is attached. For this example we assume a 10A maintainer and a 20A DC-DC charger.

  1. starter battery voltage rises from 10A maintainer charging…
  2. triggering the DC-DC charger…
  3. which begins pulling up to 20A from the chassis
  4. pulling down the starter battery since the 10A maintainer cannot keep up
  5. starter battery voltage drops far enough the DC-DC turns off
  6. repeat forever

The workaround is to either charge the house battery first or to buy a big enough starter battery maintainer to support both the starter battery and DC-DC charger loads.

further reading

1)
20A, 40A, etc
2)
FLA demands are much milder due to higher internal resistance
3)
C/100 to C/200
4)
DC-DC chargers were first marketed for cruisers (powered boats) since they run the engines (“cruise”) for hours each day.
5)
or should have for its own good, see Li below
8)
you aren't choosing your own highly-configurable components
10)
up to 100A
12)
and the pre-2018 D250S model
17)
per the manual
18)
~250w of panel under excellent conditions
19)
trigger wire allows use of smart alternators
23)
and possibly 60A according to manual nomenclature
26)
triggered by elevated chassis voltage
electrical/12v/b2b.txt · Last modified: 2021/06/21 15:32 by frater_secessus